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Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

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Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#681

Post by BadBadJellyBean »

jvalencia wrote: post #646
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike the idea that if a cloud provider can not provide every service it's not even worth considering. Where is the problem solving. Maybe don't lock yourself into a single vendor and shop around for solutions. Apart from that the cloud offerings of companies like OVH and Scaleway are constantly expanding.

This takes time and effort, thus, lost opportunity cost. The thing that makes these providers worth it, is that it lets the business focus on their core competencies and just add-on as they scale without worrying about complexity. A business owner who hyper-optimizes for every contract is unlikely to be focusing on growing their business, even if their business is more efficient on paper.

It would make me very uneasy to have my company be 100% dependent on another company. It sure is easy and convenient to just go to AWS/Azure/GCP pick all the components I want and plug them together but I'd say leading a company is not always choosing the easiest but sometimes the most sensible option.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#682

Post by littlestymaar »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #427
littlestymaar wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like containing Russia without having to rely on the whims of another country's politics That's true, but at the same time it was probably already the case before invasion of Ukraine, and it is definitely the case now. The main issue is political fragmentation: would Paris and Berlin risk lives of French and German people (soldiers and civilians due to retaliation) to save Vilnius? But if the answer is true (as obl…

> The main issue is political fragmentation: would Paris and Berlin risk lives of French and German people (soldiers and civilians due to retaliation) to save Vilnius? This is a wrong question. If one day Russia feels brave enough to attack any NATO country, the right question to ask is, "Do we want to fight this war on someone else's soil or on ours?". This is the reason why Europe is so focused on helping Ukraine B…

> This is the reason why Europe is so focused on helping Ukraine BTW.

We aren't that focused actually. France produced close to zero 155mm shells in 2023 because the producer (les forges de Tarbes) couldn't pay its suppliers due to liquidity issues. That could have been solved by a phone call to the national investment bank (BPI) but lasted 9 months because we don't take things too seriously.

Another example is how negligible was the war in Ukraine in the debate about the government budget for the past two years. If we were serious about helping Ukraine we should be spending so much money it would become a priority topic in budget debates, but it's not the case at all.

I'm deeply disappointed about how complacent we have been for the past 4 years.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#683

Post by littlestymaar »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #672
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you undermine the economic and political system of a country? The economic one can be undermined by sanctions, and they happened only because the war - before that the West was happy to send billions to Russia. The political one seems quite stable, Putin had a few decades to cement it and make sure nobody takes it to the streets, and if someone is brave enough to do it, they will be quickly pacified. He is swi…

I thought Iran situation is more about sharia than youtube cat videos.

It's not, the current protests are mainly about economic harshness.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#684

Post by Juliate »

mgh95 wrote: post #627
Juliate wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you still won't get with 170k in the Bay Area, what you get in Paris, Madrid, Nantes or Barcelona with 80k. In France, if you get 80k net, you do actually get ~160k, half of which is collected/distributed before by your employer to various mutualised funds (health, retirement, unemployment, state taxes, employee benefits, etc.). And the mechanism is somewhat similar in other EU countries.

> But you still won't get with 170k in the Bay Area, what you get in Paris, Madrid, Nantes or Barcelona with 80k. Note the 170k eur is in Spain -- not the bay area. I compared salaries of Google in Spain to the average salary of a senior SWE in Spain. The point isn't that the big tech pay more in the bay area compared to Spain. The point is the big tech companies pay more in Spain compared to other Spanish companies.…

Oh wow. If that's 170k as an employee (not a contractor), yes, that's definitely impressive.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#685

Post by surgical_fire »

lucasRW wrote: post #677
surgical_fire wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no EU > what has destroyed Europe. Hyperbole much? I think you completely misunderstand what the EU is, the position of its member states, etc. It's hard to take any point you tried to make seriously given that.

Many EU countries have bought US fighter jets (Denmark for instance). Many EU countries still make it clear that they want US technology (Poland for instance). Germany is sending extremely mixed signals. So, when it's "EU sovereignity", which is it, the Polish flavored one, or the French-flavored one ?

> Many EU countries have bought US fighter jets (Denmark for instance).

This is more related to NATO than to EU.

> So, when it's "EU sovereignity", which is it, the Polish flavored one, or the French-flavored one ?

EU is not a country. Each country within the EU has its own government, and sometimes they exist in tension and are redundant with the bloc.

It is actually a point in favor of a more federalized EU. Each individual country in isolation is too ineffective on its own.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#686

Post by jraph »

jgbuddy wrote: post #635
jraph wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also it’s not like it’s impossible to encrypt things when you store them? Apart from Signal, do you know of an actual US service where things are E2E encrypted, including metadata, that also allows several people working on the same thing at the same time? > not having the US have access to EU data It is a great deal about not having US access EU data. It is also about the US not having the power to cut the EU from…

Most blob storage is encrypted. S3 is by default.

This wouldn't address building an actual E2EE service. This is a hard issue.

CryptPad [1] does this but it has strong limitations inherent to a fully E2EE system.

(disclaimer: I work for the company which develop CryptPad, but I don't myself work on it)

[1] https://cryptpad.org

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#687

Post by jraph »

jgbuddy wrote: post #638
embedding-shape wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unfortunate that government control / intervention in the free market to this degree can be spun into something positive I don't think most Europeans want a laissez faire-style "anything goes" market, we want corporations and people to have responsibility for what they do and the effect they have. With a little bit of nuance, some government control and intervention is needed in a healthy society, because we don't…

I disagree on what’s needed for a ‘healthy society’ but maybe that’s subjective

It is obviously subjective, it is a political opinion.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#688

Post by simianwords »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #159
202508042147 wrote: post #49

As a European, I am glad that this is finally discussed in the open! I have made multiple comments in the last weeks that one of the most important things, for me, is an alternative to the Visa/Mastercard duopoly. And yes, I can use an app to pay, but whenever I rent a car or purchase something online, I still use one of these two American companies. Why isn't the European Commission mandating these app payments in d…

We have UPI in India and it's pretty Robust. My brother actually was part of deal in talks to have UPI pilots as a project within London as a project within his college and I remember him talking about how UPI (India) is in talks with other European countries too. With the mother of all deals recently signed between EU and India. I sincerely hope that UPI can have access within EU markets too. If you ever come to Ind…

Using card is much much easier and better UX.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#689

Post by lucasRW »

surgical_fire wrote: post #685
lucasRW wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many EU countries have bought US fighter jets (Denmark for instance). Many EU countries still make it clear that they want US technology (Poland for instance). Germany is sending extremely mixed signals. So, when it's "EU sovereignity", which is it, the Polish flavored one, or the French-flavored one ?

> Many EU countries have bought US fighter jets (Denmark for instance). This is more related to NATO than to EU. > So, when it's "EU sovereignity", which is it, the Polish flavored one, or the French-flavored one ? EU is not a country. Each country within the EU has its own government, and sometimes they exist in tension and are redundant with the bloc. It is actually a point in favor of a more federalized EU. Each i…

No. "Stronger together" is a hoax, and is only true if all participants are in agreement, otherwise you are "weaker together". 20 years of failed projects (apart from the law saying that bottles should have their cap attached) show that it is impossible to reach consensus with 27 participants.

Put 27 people in a room, all wanting something different, nothing comes out.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#690

Post by MagicMoonlight »

hintymad wrote: post #643
kioku wrote: post #43

> This isn't just compliance theater; it's a straight‑up national economic security play. The woes of LLM contrasts… In all seriousness, the points made ring true not only for European companies and should make everyone consider the implications of the current situation, as dreary as they are.

Yeah, human brain is amazing. After I reading many AI replies, this kind style just stands out, even though I can't precisely describe it.

We’re the blade runners of this generation, spotting the replicants in the posts.
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