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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#681

Post by mwelpa »

bz_bz_bz wrote: post #664
whatever1 wrote: post #334

Porsche was on the brink of bankruptcy. Then they started making SUVs. It turned out the SUVs are the ones that are bringing in all the cash to the company. The audience of Porsche SUVs (cayenne, macan) care about signaling wealth via the badge. But they mostly want an everyday car for their commute, groceries / kid pickup. No wonder the EVs options sell better. They have the badge, and are better at everyday tasks.…

The EV options sell better in Europe because they completely stopped selling the ICE Macan due to EU cybersecurity regs. In North America (the only market that hasn't seen a decrease in sales), they did a 180 and promised to keep selling the ICE SUVs into 2030 because EV adoption has massively disappointed. The new K1 is now going to be sold with a combustion engine first instead of as a fully-electric.

Doesn't it include PHEV cars? I don't spot EV Porsches too often in one of central European capitals.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#682

Post by mwelpa »

lql1 wrote: post #355

In some european countries (atleast in finland), you pay less taxes for "electrified" cars than pure gas powered, so most people who buy porsche (atleast in finland) does not ever charge the car via charger, and never drive with "hybrid mode". Hybrid porsches are called "tax evasion hybrids" atleast in finland

same in Poland - 9,3% tax for electrified cars, and 18,6% for gasoline ones.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#683

Post by NetMageSCW »

graemep wrote: post #443

two things that stood out for me: 1. A lot of hybrids 2. "Reasons for the decrease in both regions include supply gaps for the combustion-engined 718 and Macan models due to EU cybersecurity regulations." What is the second about?

New regulations in the EU require increased security features in connected cars and secure updates that couldn’t be implemented in the older digital systems of the 718/Macan without redesigning all new systems, and since Porsche was planning on electrifying those models first, they moved that ahead rather than create new ICE models. In retrospect that was too early a move to BEV for them.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#684

Post by NetMageSCW »

speed_spread wrote: post #175

They can try selling me an electric sports car the day they get the weight back under ~1500kg. Electric cars are fast in straight line, but that extra inertia is a killer in curves. I want a long range go-kart.

Their ICE sports cars barely make that in a lot of cases. I think you will need a long wait and a different manufacturer to get a very light weight BEV sports car.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#685

Post by kazinator »

melenaboija wrote: post #166
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

I'm not a car enthusiast. Unfortunately, I'm also not a phone-on-wheels enthusiast either.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#686

Post by robocat »

jansper39 wrote: post #422
psychoslave wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly doubt any current car will stand longevity of those cars. The maintenance entry cost of anything with integrated electronic is just several order of magnitude in complexity.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

> Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars

They're reliable, but when they have a problem, they're too hard to fix.

Last time I got my Toyota Hybrid fixed, the recommended first step for the fault code was to "replace the ECU". Expensive. Fault was elsewhere but I had to suck up that cost. I've just scrapped that car for a different fault, because although the new fault was easily fixable, the parts and labour were very expensive (and wouldn't make the car more reliable).

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#687

Post by WorldMaker »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #561
pjc50 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from Toyotas, hybrids are kind of unpopular precisely because they're a compromise. Not many people who do make the switch to EV go back. Additional tipping points will come when cities start banning combustion engines on emissions grounds. Then gas stations start closing. After a while you get the reverse condition to EV range anxiety: having to drive further and further out of your way to fill up. Maybe you g…

But that is far in the future, long after my recently purchased ICE needs replacing.

The 1970s suggests that when gas stations start closing they may close a lot faster than people expect. Gas has a weird margin and is often something of a "loss leader" to convenience stores (or now full supermarkets). On the supply side it is capital-heavy and demand-driven in interesting ways that will respond to demand drops in terms of a "ratchet effect", in which many types of temporary shutdowns will result in permanent shutdowns that will be more expensive to restart than there should be investment interest.

Gas logistics is fascinating with how many possible places exist for disruption (in the negative sense more than the tech sense) to cause domino chains.

Things have the possibility to get "very interesting" in a unique shutdown spiral. I don't know how soon we'll see it, or if we'll see it, but if it happens I don't think it is "far" in the future, even as the 1970s starts to feel too far out of cultural memory to use as an allegory.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#688

Post by chung8123 »

nikanj wrote: post #331
joe_mamba wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels bad faith to shit on people from your ivory tower, just because they can't afford to ditch their reliable beaters and buy a new car. Have you seen wage growth vs car price increases lately? Not everyone is on a remote six figure US tech job. Try to view and judge things from outside your bubble as well. I'd also dump my ol reliable ICE car that's now probably worth less than a fancy electric bicycle, if someone…

Look at the average car payment in the US, and the average car sale price The ”americans can’t afford EVs” argument falls totally apart when the average(!) sale price is over $50k and you can get a perfectly good Leaf for $25k

You need to compare apples to apples in that 50k sale price. People are not buying Versas that are 50k

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#689

Post by kazinator »

bluedino wrote: post #490
costcopizza wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here. There are multiple other factors for the relatively low adoption of EVs compared to China.

> I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here. Only like 1-2% of new cars are manual transmission here. A lot of the enthusiast market complains that everything is an automatic these days, even high end sports cars.

I like manual transmissions; they do what you tell them, and do it quickly. They are fun to drive.

They are also on their way out, together with the internal combustion engine. It's possible to work them into electric cars, but they don't make much sense there.

The deal breaker for me isn't the lack of a manual transmission, but all the screens and software updates, and barriers to repair.

Can we not have an electric econobox that focuses on utter simplicity?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#690

Post by WorldMaker »

catigula wrote: post #582
pjc50 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from Toyotas, hybrids are kind of unpopular precisely because they're a compromise. Not many people who do make the switch to EV go back. Additional tipping points will come when cities start banning combustion engines on emissions grounds. Then gas stations start closing. After a while you get the reverse condition to EV range anxiety: having to drive further and further out of your way to fill up. Maybe you g…

This is nonsense. Hybrids are outselling EVs in the US. Hybrid adoption in the US is soaring. It's doubled in just a few years. They're hugely popular in the US precisely because they're NOT a compromise.

They are hugely popular in the US because there are more of them for sale and they have a lot of momentum from Toyota getting lost in the Hydrogen distraction.

From the perspective of a BEV with a modern range, hybrids have terrible all-electric range (if they even have true electric range) and worse maintenance schedules/cost of ownership. That's the compromise: less weight for good batteries for pure electric range and higher cost of ownership for high weight moving parts that you don't need in trips below electric range.

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