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I don't care how well your "AI" works

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Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#681

Post by JustExAWS »

HWR_14 wrote: post #643
JustExAWS wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I have personally tested it on the green field projects I mostly work on and it does the grunt work of IAC (Terraform) and even did a decently complicated API with some detailed instructions like I would give another developer. I’ve done literally dozens of short term quick turn around POCs from doing the full stack from an empty AWS account to “DevOps” to the software development -> training customers how to fi…

> I know how many fewer man hours it takes me now. But how much has your hourly rate risen?

If you are “consulting” on an hourly rate, you’re doing it wrong. The company and I get paid for delivering projects not the number of hours we work. A smaller project may just say they have me for 6 weeks with known deliverable. I’m rarely working 40 hours a week.

When I did do one short term project independently, I gave them the amount I was going to charge for the project based on the requirements.

All consulting companies - including the division at AWS - always eventually expand to the staff augmentation model where you assign warm bodies and the client assigns the work. I have always refused to touch that kind of work with a ten foot pole.

All of my consulting work has been working full time and salaries for either the consulting division of AWS where I got the same structured 4 year base + RSUs as every other employee or now making the same amount (with a lot less stress and better benefits) in cash.

I’m working much less now than I ever have in my life partially because I’m getting paid for my expertise and not for how much code I can pump out.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#682

Post by ponector »

evnp wrote: post #435
acedTrex wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's really easy to use LLMs to shift work onto other people. This is so incredibly true.

I'm interested in this. Code review, most egregiously where the "author" neglected to review the LLM output themselves, seems like a clear instance. What are some other examples? Something that should go in a "survival guide" for devs that still prefer to code themselves.

Bugs. In our project developers are now making x4 amount of bugs comparing to 2024. Same developers, but now with Cursor.

Basically they are pushing their work to the test engineers or whoever is doing testing (might be end users).

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#683

Post by theonething »

dugidugout wrote: post #507
theonething wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is hyperbolic fear mongering dressed up in a cutesie story. Our industry is being disrupted by AI. What industry in history has not been disrupted by technological progression? It's called life. And those that can adapt to life changing will continue to thrive. And those who can't will get left behind. There is no wholesale turkey slaughter.

If you read the grand parent, they seem to be denying a disruption is taking place industry wide. The adage was used to illustrate how complacency is blinded by the very conditions that enable it, and while this is unfalsifiable and not very conducive to discussion, "fear mongering" is a bit rich to levy. Further: > Our industry is being disrupted by AI... No wholesale turkey slaughter. Is an entirely different posit…

> GP who is essentially betting on AI producing more jobs for hackers

I'm not clear on the point you're trying to make. My comment was in response to dugidugout's analogy.

If I understand their analogy correctly, developers are the well fed turkeys and one Thanksgiving day, we're all getting slaughtered.

That is not hyperbole and fear mongering to you?

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#684

Post by paddleon »

lm28469 wrote: post #85
lynx97 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am surprised (and also kind of not) to see this kind of tech hate on HN of all places. Would you prefer we heat our homes by burning wood, carry water from the nearby spring, and ride horses to visit relatives? Progress is progress, and has always changed things. Its funny that apparently, "progressive" left-leaning people are actually so conservative at the core. So far, in my book, the advancements in the last 10…

> Would you prefer we heat our homes by burning wood, carry water from the nearby spring, and ride horses to visit relatives? I'm more surprised that seemingly educated people have such simplistic views as "technology = progress, progress = good hence technology = good". Vaccines and running water are tech, megacorps owned "AI" being weaponised by surveillance obsessed governments is also tech. If you don't push back…

Tech enabled the horrors of WWI and II, tech directly enabled the Holocast -- IBM built special computers to help the Nazi's more effectively round up the Jews.

Tech also gave us vaccines and indoor plumbing and the clothes I am wearing.

It's the morals and courage to live by those morals which creates good. Progress is by definition towards a goal. If that goal is say

> to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity

and ensure our basic inherent (not government-given) rights to

> life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness

then all good.

If it is to enrich me at the cost of thee, create a surveillance state that rounds up and kills undesirables at scale, destroys our basic inherent rights, then tech not good

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#685

Post by quinnjh »

ryanjshaw wrote: post #133
fragmede wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic ran a vending machine business as an experiment, but I don't imagine someone out there isn't already seriously running one in production.

I’ve been tempted to define my life in a big prompt and then do something like: it’s 6:05. Ryan has just woke up. What action (10min or less) does he take? I wonder where I’ll end up if I follow it to a T.

would make for quite a bizarre documentary. super size me but information rather than food.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#686

Post by rf15 »

spot5010 wrote: post #392

"I personally don’t touch LLMs with a stick. I don’t let them near my brain. Many of my friends share that sentiment." Any software engineer who shares this sentiment is doing their career a disservice. LLMs have their pitfalls, and I have been skeptical of their capabilities, but nevertheless I have tried them out earnestly. The progress of AI coding assistants over the past year has been remarkable, and now they ar…

I've used AI assitance in coding for a year before I quit. The hardest part was a day when the services where unexpectedly down, and working felt like I was amputated in some way. Nothing works, my usual movement does not produce code. That day I realised these AI integrations take away my knowledge and skill of the matter and is just maximising the easiest and fastest part of software development: writing code.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#687

Post by [deleted] »

dspillett wrote: post #610
ineedasername wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is a way out: we need to create a culture that values craftmanship and dignifies work done by developers. We need to talk seriously and plainly about the spiritual and existential damage done by LLMs" This is the exact sentiment when said about some other profession or craft, countless people elsewhere and on HN have noted that it's neither productive not wise to be so precious about a task that evolved as a n…

I'm firmly in the “don't want to use it; if you want to, feel free, but stop nagging me to” camp. Oh, and the “I'm not accepting 'the AI did it' as an excuse for failures” camp. Just like outsourcing to other humans: you chose the tool(s), you are responsible for verifying the output. I got into programming and kicking infrastructure because I'm the sort of sad git who likes the details, and I'm not about to let some…

[deleted]

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#688

Post by dugidugout »

theonething wrote: post #683
dugidugout wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the grand parent, they seem to be denying a disruption is taking place industry wide. The adage was used to illustrate how complacency is blinded by the very conditions that enable it, and while this is unfalsifiable and not very conducive to discussion, "fear mongering" is a bit rich to levy. Further: > Our industry is being disrupted by AI... No wholesale turkey slaughter. Is an entirely different posit…

> GP who is essentially betting on AI producing more jobs for hackers I'm not clear on the point you're trying to make. My comment was in response to dugidugout's analogy. If I understand their analogy correctly, developers are the well fed turkeys and one Thanksgiving day, we're all getting slaughtered. That is not hyperbole and fear mongering to you?

Sorry to confuse the thread. I meant to point to the original comment (embedding-shape), but blindly labeled them GP.

We share understanding of their analogy, but differ in the inferred application. I took it as the well fed turkeys are "developers who deny AI will disrupt their industry", not "developers" as a whole.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#689

Post by swat535 »

Blackthorn wrote: post #305
codeflo wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were proven right three minutes after you posted this. Something happened, I'm not sure what and how. Hacking became reduced to "hacktivism", and technology stopped being the object of interest in those spaces.

> and technology stopped being the object of interest in those spaces. That happened because technology stopped being fun. When we were kids, seeing Penny communicating with Brain through her watch was neat and cool! Then when it happened in real life, it turned out that it was just a platform to inject you with more advertisements. The "something" that happened was ads. They poisoned all the fun and interest out of…

> That happened because technology stopped being fun.

Exactly and I'm sure it was our naivete to think otherwise. As software became more common, it grew, regulations came in, corporate greed took over and "normies" started to use.

As a result, now everything is filled in subscriptions, ads, cookie banners and junk.

Let's also not kid ourselves but an entire generation of "bootcamp" devs joined the industry in the quest of making money. This group never shared any particular interest in technology, software or hardware.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#690

Post by JuniperMesos »

idiotsecant wrote: post #476
everdrive wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Somewhere along the lines of "everybody can code," we threw out the values and aesthetics that attracted people in the first place. At some point people started universally accepting the idea that any sort of gatekeeping was a bad thing.I think by now people are starting to realize that this was a flawed idea. (at best, gatekeeping is not a pure negative; it's situational) But, despite coming to realize this I think…

Your point is that the hacker ethos involved ... Fewer people being excited about programming? I don't think we experienced this on the same planet. Web 1.0 was full of weirdos doing cool weird stuff for the pure joy of discovery. That's the ethos we need back, and it's not incompatible with AI. The wrong turn we took was letting business overtake joy. That's a decision we can undo today by opting out of that whole e…

This is because in Web 1.0 times, only weird hacker types were capable of using the internet effectively. Normies (and weirdos who were weird in ways not related to familiarity with and interest in personal computer technology) were simply not using the internet in earnest, because it wasn't effective for their needs yet. Then people made that happen and now everyone is online, including boring normies with boring interests.

If you want a space where weird hacker values and doing stuff for the pure joy of discovery reign, gatekeep harder.

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