Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

fastcompany.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 954 posts

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#681

Post by rpmisms »

bob1029 wrote: post #392
rpmisms wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both. Driving is much scarier in terms of kinetic energy, anyway.

You may be surprised to learn how much kinetic energy is possible to wield in terms of man portable firearms that are also legal for purchase. A 20mm rifle is a perfect example of how velocity kills in gun terms. 60000J of energy in one trigger pull. This is equivalent to a car traveling at 15-20mph.

No I wouldn't be surprised at all :)

A Toyota Corolla going 65MPH is a lot of kinetic energy.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#682

Post by maccard »

graemep wrote: post #527

Repeat offenders should not be allowed to drive. In the UK we have 12 points, and lose them for various offences. You get a fine, usually with the alternative of a course the first time. Speed again within 12 months and you get a fine and a minimum of three points (more if you are well above the limit). Speed again within four years and you will lose more points, and AFAIK pretty much guaranteed to be more than the m…

I agree with everything you’ve said.

But, the sort of person who gets 12 points isn’t exactly the sort of person who you would expect to actually stop driving once they’ve got there. They’ve already been in court for speeding (or worse) at least twice, possibly 4 times. Maybe more if they were offered a speed awareness course the first time. If the goal is to stop them speeding then these devices might actually do it…

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#683

Post by potato3732842 »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #668
_fat_santa wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say this as a car guy, Virgina has an exceedingly bad reputation among gear heads. If you look at virtually any east coast rally, they will all route around Virginia to avoid driving through it. - VA is the only state to ban radar detectors - It has the lowest interstate speed limit in the country - It has some of the stiffest super speeder and reckless driving laws in the country. In most places if you go lik…

Sounds good to me. People shouldn't be driving 30 over. Reckless driving should be taken seriously. These don't sound anti-car. They're pro-life and safety.

The public doesn't take "reckless driving" seriously because it is not defined in a serious manner.

It encompass people who are going 60/65/75 (depending on state) in a 55 on the interstate that's actually a 45 because of an inactive construction zone and also people who are going 60mph on 30mph city streets (probably genuinely reckless per common usage of the word). They're two very different degrees of misconduct and the former vastly outnumbers the latter and everyone knows it and political will for penalties is based off this.

You wanna see reckless driving taken seriously the first step is to stop advocating for definitions of reckless that include behavior the general public doesn't see as reckless.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#684

Post by sgarland »

ryao wrote: post #656
sgarland wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have pointed out, the inspection standards are wildly different. Here’s [0] an amusing and eye-opening look at what is needed to restore an older vehicle to pass inspection. For example, removing surface rust on a spare tire mount. Even then, he still failed inspection [1], and goes into much more detail on the rigorous checks performed. In contrast, there are U.S. states with zero inspections of any kind.…

Here is the NYS vehicle inspection program requirements: https://dmv.ny.gov/new-york-state-vehicle-safetyemissions-in... If there is anything missing that is needed for road safety, I am sure that the NYS legislature would be happy to add it. You can write to them with your findings. In any case, there is an inspection program that keeps vehicles to a minimum standard in NYS. Other states could easily adopt it. If a…

That’s great, good for New York. Now go get Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Washington to do the same. Also, remember that licensing reciprocity means that if I have a vehicle titled in South Carolina, nothing stops me from driving it into North Carolina.

I think you missed the entire part of my post where I discussed how a significant portion of the population is unable to properly maintain their vehicles, and also lack access to reliable public transit.

Re: Newton, you said that “Actual data does not support the idea of low speed limits.” You did not cite your source, and without that, I am defaulting to the basic physics principle that an object moving faster will impart more force on another if they collide.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#685

Post by donatj »

shlant wrote: post #597
donatj wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many places in the United States use speed traps as revenue streams, and in many of the same places in the US it's nigh impossible to get around without a vehicle. Taking someone's license away for getting caught doing 5 over a few too many times on the freeway where literally everyone is always doing 5 over and you are more of a danger by not going the speed of traffic doesn't in any way serve the public interest as…

> Taking someone's license away for getting caught doing 5 over a few too many times on the freeway where literally everyone is always doing 5 over and you are more of a danger by not going the speed of traffic doesn't in any way serve the public interest as far as I can tell. It's a death sentence for a victimless crime. What percentage of people who would be effected by this do you think match this description?

I would imagine most. In my experience, laws intended to catch specific bad actors usually end up being enforced mostly against the easiest-to-catch mild offenders.

For example: one of my neighbors speeds like an idiot through our neighborhood — easily doing 60 mph and often blowing right through the stop sign at the end of the block. He’s a real danger.

The neighborhood complained to city hall. Their solution? They lowered the speed limit from 30 mph to 20 mph. It changed nothing. He still speeds. He still blows stop signs. He doesn’t get caught — there usually aren't any cops hanging around our sleepy end of town.

Meanwhile, I have seen people get pulled over for doing the previously legal, entirely reasonable, 30 mph — which is still the limit for most of the city.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#686

Post by seneca »

graemep wrote: post #527

Repeat offenders should not be allowed to drive. In the UK we have 12 points, and lose them for various offences. You get a fine, usually with the alternative of a course the first time. Speed again within 12 months and you get a fine and a minimum of three points (more if you are well above the limit). Speed again within four years and you will lose more points, and AFAIK pretty much guaranteed to be more than the m…

Totally agree. Vehicles are incredibly dangerous, and operating hundreds of them in concert with each other requires responsible participants. Allowing them to be used like toys for simpletons to play out some racing fantasy with is a serious danger to people just going about their lives.

At a certain point, aggressive driving and speeding should be treated like negligently swinging about a weapon. It should be treated seriously.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#687

Post by xandrius »

afavour wrote: post #645
graemep wrote: post #527

Repeat offenders should not be allowed to drive. In the UK we have 12 points, and lose them for various offences. You get a fine, usually with the alternative of a course the first time. Speed again within 12 months and you get a fine and a minimum of three points (more if you are well above the limit). Speed again within four years and you will lose more points, and AFAIK pretty much guaranteed to be more than the m…

The problem with this model is that in a lot of places (especially in the US) public transit isn't a viable alternative to owning a car. So if your ability to drive gets taken away a lot of people just end up driving illegally. It's either that or lose your job, income and possibly home etc etc. IMO a forced maximum vehicle speed is a useful middle ground option.

More people (and not just the poorer) needing to use the public transport will definitely have a positive impact on how much money it gets. And if it is being more strict with people who break driving laws, I don't see why that shouldn't happen.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#688

Post by ryao »

sgarland wrote: post #684
ryao wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the NYS vehicle inspection program requirements: https://dmv.ny.gov/new-york-state-vehicle-safetyemissions-in... If there is anything missing that is needed for road safety, I am sure that the NYS legislature would be happy to add it. You can write to them with your findings. In any case, there is an inspection program that keeps vehicles to a minimum standard in NYS. Other states could easily adopt it. If a…

That’s great, good for New York. Now go get Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Washington to do the same. Also, remember that licensing reciprocity means that if I have a vehicle titled in South Carolina, nothing stops me from driving it into North Carolina. I think you missed the entire part of my post where I discussed how a significant…

> That’s great, good for New York. Now go get Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Washington to do the same. Also, remember that licensing reciprocity means that if I have a vehicle titled in South Carolina, nothing stops me from driving it into North Carolina.

Germany is no different. There is licensing reciprocity with the rest of the EU and even other countries beyond the EU. I could drive in Germany with my NY license:

https://de.usembassy.gov/driving-in-germany/

People can even drive in Germany with licenses issued by any of the states you mentioned. You can even drive cars registered in the U.S. in Germany:

https://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individuals/Travel/Entering-G...

The only restrictions occur when you wish to do it for longer than 6 months.

> I think you missed the entire part of my post where I discussed how a significant portion of the population is unable to properly maintain their vehicles, and also lack access to reliable public transit.

This does not pose a problem in NY. Other states could easily follow suit. I think you missed that.

> Re: Newton, you said that “Actual data does not support the idea of low speed limits.” You did not cite your source, and without that, I am defaulting to the basic physics principle that an object moving faster will impart more force on another if they collide.

The German autobahn is the most obvious source. There is also a huge body of work around the 85th percentile principle. Do I really need to say more?

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#689

Post by kube-system »

hermannj314 wrote: post #522

This has as much to do with chronic speeding as bans on encryption have to do with terrorism. It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Virginia famously cares more about police than the rights of its citizens so it isn't a surprise the weapons of the future police state are being born there.

> It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles.

Ignition interlocks have existed for many years and didn't do this.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#690

Post by os2warpman »

hermannj314 wrote: post #522

This has as much to do with chronic speeding as bans on encryption have to do with terrorism. It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Virginia famously cares more about police than the rights of its citizens so it isn't a surprise the weapons of the future police state are being born there.

There is already massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles.

Every motor vehicle has a serial number. Every motor vehicle is registered and must display an identification label on its front and rear. Every non-antique motor vehicle must be inspected annually for safety. Every motor vehicle must be operated by a licensed individual. Those individuals are assigned identification numbers and their photographs are stored in a database. Information regarding both the motor vehicle and its driver is shared among states, with private entities, and with the federal government. All motor vehicles must have insurance. The status of insurance coverage is shared with the state and other states. A network of automated license plate readers exists in the state, with police vehicles and various municipalities across the state deploying both fixed and mobile automated license plate readers. Speed and red light cameras have been deployed to municipalities across the state. Radar detectors are banned.

Anyone who has driven through Virginia knows that they have one of the, if not the, strictest speeding enforcement programs in the entire country.

> The Old Dominion has the second-highest citation rate for speeding in the nation — 67 percent higher than the national average — where many drivers are caught in the state’s notorious speed traps on interstate highways near Richmond.

https://insurify.com/car-insurance/insights/states-most-heav...

The door was opened decades ago.

This is about speeding.

On a personal level, I do one day a week as a volunteer EMT. Most of the time it's great. Taking old folks with UTIs and abnormal labs to the ER, treating injuries at high school football games, taking vitals and transporting folks with dizziness, racing to a restaurant and epi'ing someone who had an allergic reaction. Very rewarding, supremely fulfilling.

Then the drunks and the speeders show up and you go home wishing you could feed the legs of people who drive recklessly into meat grinders, up to their thighs.

Post reply on HN