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'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#681

Post by simonmales »

bee_rider wrote: post #407
jagged-chisel wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many places in apps just wait for no reason. Let's take a hypothetical situation: Suppose you're doing gig delivery. You're delivering to two customers in the same neighborhood on the same run. You drop the first order, take your photo of the drop, and the app spins. It's waiting for the photo to be delivered before it moves on. You can't get directions to the next customer until the app moves along. Why can't it…

That’s bizarre. The whole point of having an app instead of a website is to have more processing occur locally, right?

Many apps are shortcuts. They live rent free on people's home screens/launchers.

Plenty could exist as a web app.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#682

Post by elric »

QuadrupleA wrote: post #116

I avoid apps too if I can. So rare that the app does anything a website can't. Indeed most apps are implemented with embedded browsers. It's about tracking, and push notifications. Full stop.

> It's about tracking

That's exactly what it is. That is the only real reason. More tracking, more data harvesting, more control for the publisher at the expense of user agency.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#683

Post by like_any_other »

rs186 wrote: post #74
like_any_other wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all shoulder the consequences of slowly sliding into a society of lock-in and surveillance, which is what unnecessarily requiring smartphones advances. That there are choices along the way doesn't make it fair - if I let you choose which of your fingers I cut off, am I being fair? Wait a few years, and the "choice" will be between living in the woods, and carrying an always-on telescreen with you at all times.

> if I let you choose which of your fingers I cut off, am I being fair? That's not what we are discussing here. You can't use whatever irrelevant analogy you like to prove a point that doesn't exist.

It is not an analogy, it is a proof by example that 'choice' alone does not make something fair, contrary to your assertion.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#684

Post by elric »

Forcing apps on people keeps the Apple/Google duopoly in place. Every alternative mobile OS fails unless it has an Android compatibility layer. And even then it will fail because Google's anti-competitive Play Integrity API won't work, and many users will be unable to use bank/payment apps.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#685

Post by tdeck »

zulban wrote: post #632
kxrm wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a place to live, you shouldn't carry all your belongings with you in a backpack when you go outside. I really don't like this analogy. These are entirely different concepts. A backpack has weight, dimension in real space that impacts the real world. A phone full of videos has no extra weight or volume in the real world.

Clearly, they are facing very similar physical restrictions. Not in weight but in bytes. If they want to carry many TBs on a phone in 2025 but then complaining that they can't install a 100mb app, yeah, they are carrying too much in their backpack.

> If they want to carry many TBs on a phone in 2025

What are you talking about? Only the most expensive flagship phones have a terabyte of storage space. There are no phones that have "many TBs". Mine certainly doesn't.

Regardless, none of the following functionality needs an app. It all works great on a website, and doesn't take up any space permanently on my device:

- Buying a ticket - Checking transit times - Receiving notifications (not only does email exist, but websites can send notofications) - Joining a loyalty program

I don't have any problem with people who want to carry these apps around, but as an infrequent user of many businesses, it's death by a thousand cuts. I resent how what were once perfectly workable mobile websites are slowly being degraded in order to force me to download hundreds of megabytes of copy-paste support libraries for what half the time are just wrapped webviews anyway.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#686

Post by stonogo »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #542
ComposedPattern wrote: post #245

It's funny how people in this thread keep saying "well if you're going to complain about people being penalized for not using apps, you might as well complain about people being penalized for not using telephones/cars/internet"... and yes, I am going to complain about all of those things. I imagine that many or most homeless people don't have reliable access to any of the above. I have an anxiety disorder that makes…

> I imagine that many or most homeless people don't have reliable access to any of the above. In the US there is a specific government program called "Lifeline" that provides cell phone service to low income people, https://www.fcc.gov/general/lifeline-program-low-income-cons... (whether it gets DOGEd remains to be seen...) And where I live there are a bunch of programs that provide free cell phones to homeless peopl…

You cannot receive Lifeline benefits without an address in most states.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#688

Post by elric »

afandian wrote: post #516

I'm glad to see people talking about this. I'd love to see a new right: The right to not have your phone on you. For whatever reason. Maybe it was stolen. Maybe it's being fixed. Maybe the battery is dead. (Maybe you don't want to get a Google or Apple account. But that's not the only use case.) All public services and essential services (government services, banks, car parks, etc) should respect this right. It's biz…

Maybe the currently shitty transatlantic political climate will force politicians to think about the reliance on 2 US tech companies for every single piece of mobile software.

The UK tried to force Apple to Do Evil and failes. Who's to the say the US wouldn't be (or hasn't been) more successful?

If I were a politician relying on WhatsApp for secure communications (as many over here seem to be), I'd be very worried.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#689

Post by mapt »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #385
Henchman21 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re a protected class I would assume yes. IANAL this is not legal advice and this is not a real situation anyway

That's my question, am I a protected class for not being able to operate a smartphone? I think many of a typical doctor's constituency fall into that category.

No. You're not.

Blind people are. At least, insofar as we still have the ADA.

One thing these companies are doing is charging blind people extra. Phrase it that way and you can maybe move some policy levers.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#690

Post by Idesmi »

mihaaly wrote: post #489
2shortplanks wrote: post #167

One thing this article doesn’t mention is how this all falls apart when you spend time in more than one country. My UK bank (Barclays) won’t let me install their app on my US iPhone (i.e. my phone that uses a US based iCloud account). Tesco won’t let me use their loyalty app. I can’t install an app that’ll let me order Starbucks or McDonalds in the UK (I only have access to the US versions of these apps). I can’t wat…

When I was young in Europe the trend was that the place where you live will dictate and limit less and less of your life. Technology, traveling, motivation of people will allow roaming, postcode independent existence. Well, the trend froze up very fast and is in full reverse nowadays, I am in my early 50s and I believe me and my children's life will such more and more, be even more difiicult by the reverse of intents…

Not just freedom of living and work, but things even more basic: Have you tried crossing the border with Germany or Austria by train? You'll most likely get a mini deportation squad on board, despite all agreeing to Schengen Convention.
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