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New iMac with M4

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Re: New iMac with M4

#681

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I hope they also plant one or two small trees somewhere! And promote the use of refillable water botles on campus!!

Not sure if you're kidding, but around 2014 on campus we all got reusable water bottles, and I still of course have mine, as they're useful (and less wasteful).

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Re: New iMac with M4

#682

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You can tell they're full of shit because they can't stop tooting the green horn. It's self evident. If they made their devices repairable, easily resellable, etc. then they wouldn't have to greenwash.

I’ll bite: what about their devices is not easily resellable? Sure seems easy to factory reset basically anything Apple, and their resale values hold up a lot better than most devices.

Not sure if this is what they meant, but from what I've heard, lots of companies send "obsolete" devices to recyclers without disabling Activation Lock. Not really Apple's fault, but if they added a last-resort way to wipe devices they could cut down on a lot of waste. I'm somewhat skeptical that locking does anything to deter thieves anyway.

Re: New iMac with M4

#683

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Do regular users use more than 250GB or so of local storage? Large media collections are likely stored on a NAS or external HDDs and the local disk is more for the OS, apps, and scratch space. Nowadays many files are on the cloud as well. Developers, video editors, and other people who actually handle large amounts of data locally will likely purchase an upgrade. While they're Linux systems pretty much all my desktop…

Exactly this. Regular users keep their photos and videos in the cloud these days, whether iCloud or Google Drive. And video editors are going to be using external drives anyways, the internal SSD is just for scratch. If Macs were used more for gaming then that would be a major reason... but they're not.

I bought my wife a base storage mini with this assumption and her iCloud messages was 95gb because of all the pictures and videos sent. There is no way to offload it or move it to store on my nas, or an external HDD that I could find

It's a very intentional thing to try to make you need more space.

I pay $30 a month for the 6tb iCloud plan and could find no other workarounds other than logging her out of iMessage - which is absolutely rubbish

Re: New iMac with M4

#684

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Oh thank god. Not a day goes by when I'm not thanking the powers that be in Europe for pressuring Apple to add USB-C to iphone.

People say this as if Apple hadn't already been adding USB-C to their iOS devices for several years. There were pretty good reasons for holding off USB-C for the iPhone. It was likely to alienate a good number of customers. I doubt Europe had anything to do with the timing.

I'm confused about how Europe didn't have anything to do with the timing.

Apple switched exactly when Europe mandated it and criticized the mandate.

Re: New iMac with M4

#685

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How we can tell what? That they sell a lot of stock MacBook Airs? They do. I don't find the topic interesting enough to find a link, but I'm pretty confident on this one. > a lot of people use their Macs as they would an iPad A lot of people have pretty undemanding requirements in a laptop, yes. 8GiB is more than enough for some web browsing and light document editing, a bit of photo retouching, that kind of thing. T…

> but I'm pretty confident on this one. I just doubt there is actual meaningful data available (at least that's publicly accessible). We'd need to measure the proportion of base config MBA users who regularly get OOM warnings? > many Chromebooks Yes. People just have different use cases. I mean almost nobody who does anything that might require > 16-32 GB of memory would likely buy this iMac (even if Apple sold such…

> regularly get OOM warnings

Ah, yes that was why I asked what I did. I'm quite confident they sell a lot of stock MBAs, is what I said, as a guess at what we were trying to 'tell'.

As for "low on application memory" warnings, macOS doesn't really do that unless the user is also out of swap. Offer may not be valid for XCode. My wild-ass guess is that users who need lots of RAM tend to know that when they buy computers, and that percentage wise, there are more over-provisioned Mac users than under-provisioned. But who knows.

> So this is just basically a generic office / front desk PC for people who don't need laptops.

Right. Apple market-segments their products pretty carefully, and the post-Pro iMac line is for receptionists, desktop publishing, light-duty visual/creative, the occasional desk-oriented email job, and so on. 16 GiB is a generous baseline for those tasks, and 8 GiB was probably adequate for most customers.

Re: New iMac with M4

#687

Reading this on 2017 iMac 27" - is the first 5k iMac that couldn't be used as a monitor after the computer inside is irrelevant. I hope EU will push for some law that requires all AIO computers to work in monitor-only mode if internal hardware is no longer good enough or no longer supported by software updates. I love the 5k screen on this iMac but the CPU is too old for photo or video editing as software got so much…

please, sell it. don't trash it! a computer from 2017 is still perfect for most people, and especially for hackers. there is a market for computers that are barely 7 years old.

i am writing this from a macbook pro from 2012, and it's my daily driver. macs are really amazing machines (i guess there's a bit of luck involved, but they are in general very solid).

Re: New iMac with M4

#688

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It's not that they actively do bad things, it's that they only dedicate real resources in the direction of self-interest. Tim Cook likes to point to their solar investments and accessibility as examples of "doing good" when in reality the former is a good long term financial bet and the latter is generally under-resourced (or "cheap" to them). They'd use M.2 SSDs in their Macs instead of soldering flash chips to the…

“They only dedicate real resources in the direction of self interest” Wow, it’s almost like they are a publicly traded company with a legal obligation to do so!

You know, keeping the planet we live on alive is also self interest.

Re: New iMac with M4

#689
post #200

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The OS will use more RAM if you give it more RAM. The fact that you are currently using 46GB on an (I assume) 64GB model doesn't necessarily mean that your workload would run badly on a 32GB or 16GB model.

It's more likely to mean exactly that, because the less RAM, the more disk swapping. At some point it becomes impossible for the OS to keep everything it wants in RAM at the same time, and then you get an orgy of disk thrashing and a potential lock-up. This is not theoretical. I've had it happen on both Macs and Windows machines, sometimes with just a single main app running. At best you'll get obvious delays if you…

Yes, you may get some swapping, but with a fast SSD that won't necessarily degrade performance too much.

Some RAM is used for file caching and other optional stuff, so not all of the additional usage will translate into swap if RAM is reduced.

MacOS also makes use of RAM compression, which increases the amount of memory pressure that can be sustained before swapping is necessary.

All in all, it's pretty complicated, and the only way to know if a workload will perform acceptably on a machine with less RAM is to try it.

Re: New iMac with M4

#690
post #185

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These days 8 GB is absurdly low for a ~$1300 PC. Hopefully they might have finally realized that selling crippled products (just to force its users to pay the predatory price for memory upgrades) is hurting UX and their reputation. I mean they claim: > Compared to the most popular 24-inch all-in-one PC with the latest Intel Core 7 processor, the new iMac is up to 4.5x faster.1 But is that really true if your "ultrafa…

> your "ultrafast" Mac grinds to a halt when you have a couple of Electron apps and a browser open at the same time? The 8GB models could easily handle this kind of load.

But they could barely do it without swapping in my experience.

The OS alone takes 2GB or more (200MB just for spotlight iirc), a bit is used for graphics, and once you add a bunch of browser tabs and windows you're easily in a situation where RAM usage is permanently above 80%. You don't feel it as quickly on the M1 but by the time you notice lags it's already swapping 15GB, sometimes for no apparent reason.

I still don't quite get it, on the 16GB Macbook I feel like I can do much more without exceeding 8GB usage.

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