OpenAI to become for-profit company • Hacker News Board

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#681

Post by yieldcrv » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:06 AM UTC

conqrr wrote: post #675

I remember a time when promises meant something. Lots of epics in human time (Greek, Hindu), people would stick to their word and commitment was respected. Written word was much more powerful than spoken. People appreciated depth. Wish we could teach and learn from those times.

This nation’s largest institutions were founded on deceit from the colonies to the founding fathers.

Aaron Burr raised capital for a fake water company and applied for a banking charter for what is now JP Morgan Chase

some people are playing by a more effective set of rules and others are being lied to from a young age

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#682

Post by insane_dreamer » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:06 AM UTC

xwowsersx wrote: post #253

phito wrote: post #20

I know nothing about companies (esp. in the US), but I find it weird that a company can go from non-profit to for-profit? Surely this would be taken advantage of. Can someone explain me how this work?

At first, I thought, “Wow, if companies can start as nonprofits and later switch to for-profit, they’ll exploit the system.” But the more I learned about the chaos at OpenAI, the more I realized the opposite is true. Companies will steer clear of this kind of mess. The OpenAI story seems more like a warning than a blueprint. Why would any future company want to go down this path?

> Why would any future company want to go down this path?

most would happily sell their soul and deal with any mess to reach $150B valuation

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#683

Post by grogenaut » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:07 AM UTC

truculent wrote: post #653

ayakang31415 wrote: post #611

About a year ago (I believe), Sam Altman touted his mission to promote safe AI with claims that he has no equity in OpenAI and was never interested in getting any. Look where we are now, well played Sam.

> well played Sam Is it well played if you simply decide to lie brazenly? Anyone can win at monopoly if they decide to steal from the bank.

I can confirm this is the only way I win at monopoly. My strategy for A$$hole is more devious and involves going from ass to president with a similar strategy to my monopoly strategy then making no one want to play again as president. As a great man, Charles Wopr, once said: the only winning move is not to play.

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#684

Post by joe_the_user » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:12 AM UTC

throwup238 wrote: post #352

I’m confused by this news story and the response here. No one seems to understand OpenAI’s corporate structure or non profits at all. My understanding: OpenAI follows the same model Mozilla does. The nonprofit has owned a for-profit corporation called OpenAI Global, LLC that pays taxes on any revenue that isn’t directly in service of their mission (in a very narrow sense based on judicial precedent) since 2019 [1]. I…

There's a now-quintessential HN post format, "Poster criticizing X don't seem to under [spray of random details about X that don't refute the criticism - just cast posts as ignorant]".

In this case, Mozilla as a non-profit owning a for-profit manages to more or less fulfill the non-profit's mission (maintaining an open, alternative browser). OpenAI has been in a hurry to abandon it's non-profit mission for a while and the complex details of its structure doesn't change this.

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#685

Post by troad » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:15 AM UTC

conqrr wrote: post #675

I remember a time when promises meant something. Lots of epics in human time (Greek, Hindu), people would stick to their word and commitment was respected. Written word was much more powerful than spoken. People appreciated depth. Wish we could teach and learn from those times.

Proto-Indo-European culture seems to have placed a great deal of importance on the sanctity of contracts and the notion of reciprocal hospitality, reflected in many descendant myths and etymologies surviving from Ireland through India. If the Indo-Europeans did indeed come from the Ukrainian steppes, as seems likely, this may be a reflection of their high mobility (on horseback) causing lots of contact with potential for friction, and the fact that important personal property (for a steppe society, mainly herd animals) was moveable and vulnerable to cattle rustling. There's some great books on Indo-European society if you're interested.

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#686

Post by moozilla » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:16 AM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #516

OpenAI founded as non-profit. Sam Altman goes on Joe Rogan Podcast and says he does not really care about money. Sam gets caught driving around Napa in a $4M exotic car. OpenAI turns into for-profit. 3/4 of founding team dips out. Sketchy. This whole silicon valley attitude of fake effective altruism, "I do it for the good of humanity, not for the money (but I actually want a lot of money)" fake bullshit is so transp…

Couldn't find the JRE clip, but here's a recent one where he says "I don't really need more money." This is how I always understood it, he's already worth billions from past ventures, what difference does a stake in OpenAI make?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PScOZzzXnDA

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#687

Post by nejkbnek » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:18 AM UTC

cdchn wrote: post #586

throwaway314155 wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about the narrative they tried to create. The spin. It doesn't matter much if they were technically behaving as a for-profit entity previously. What matters is that they wanted the public (and likely, their talent) to _think_ that they weren't even interested in making a profit as this would be a philosophical threat to the notion of any sort of impartial or even hopefully benevolent originator of AGI (a goal wh…

>What matters is that they wanted the public (and likely, their talent) to _think_ that they weren't even interested in making a profit as this would be a philosophical threat to the notion of any sort of impartial or even hopefully benevolent originator of AGI (a goal which is laid plainly in their mission statement) And now they want to cast off any pretense of that former altruistic yolk now that they have a new,…

Just FYI it's "yoke" when it's a burden, "yolk" when it's an egg

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#688

Post by FireBeyond » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:21 AM UTC

walthamstow wrote: post #306

m3kw9 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NFL used to be a nonprofit and now for profit. OpenAI can use similar routes

Not an accountant but there are different kinds of nonprofits, OpenAI is a 501c3 (religious/charitable/educational) whereas the NFL was a 501c6 (trade association). Obviously we all think of the NFL as a big money organisation, but it basically just organises the fixtures and the referees. The teams make all the money.

If you want to be pedantic, in legal terms, no, the NFL is a big money org ($13B+/yr in revenue, with a commissioner earning $65M/yr).

They pay dividends to the teams, however, yes. But all that revenue (which is distinct from team revenue) is actually legally earned by the NFL itself.

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#689

Post by mr_toad » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:25 AM UTC

throwup238 wrote: post #352

I’m confused by this news story and the response here. No one seems to understand OpenAI’s corporate structure or non profits at all. My understanding: OpenAI follows the same model Mozilla does. The nonprofit has owned a for-profit corporation called OpenAI Global, LLC that pays taxes on any revenue that isn’t directly in service of their mission (in a very narrow sense based on judicial precedent) since 2019 [1]. I…

> All OpenAI is doing here is decoupling ownership of the for-profit

All? As far as I know this is unprecedented.

Re: OpenAI to become for-profit company

#690

Post by esafak » Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 1:26 AM UTC

Drakim wrote: post #424

ceejayoz wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone tends to have "be able to afford basic necessities" as a major motivation. That includes people who work in creative fields.

Several of the agricultural revolutions we went though is what freed up humanity to not spend all of it's work producing sustenance, leaving time for other professions like making art and music. But it also destroyed a lot of jobs for people who were necessary for gathering food the old inefficient way. If we take your argument to it's logical conclusion, all progress is inherently bad, and should be stopped. I depos…

For future reference, it's posit, not deposit.