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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#681

Post by lotsofpulp »

schrectacular wrote: post #637
lotsofpulp wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From whose perspective is restricting women’s access to healthcare trivial?

The question there is _which_woman_? The one going to get the procedure or the one on the sharp end of needle? So the question one might ask you is "from whose perspective is murder trivial?" Neither seem trivial to me, which is probably why it's such a contentious issue. Framing it like you do seems mostly just to dehumanize the other side. I'm probably with you in how we should treat this, but I also worry about th…

Your questions are moot because functionally no one is at the end of a needle. No woman or doctor is going around willy nilly getting their jollies off killing viable fetuses.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/04/raw-data-abor...

> What is the magical moment where we say the "clump of cells" becomes "human"?

When that human is outside of another human. Until then, women and doctors should have ZERO risk of being held liable for decisions about saving the pregnant woman’s life that may have to be made in seconds in a rapidly changing medical situation.

It is a complete non issue (that is until the Repubs started banning women’s healthcare) burning untold resources of our nation’s political time and money.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#682

Post by somenameforme »

Nextgrid wrote: post #648
vishnugupta wrote: post #101

One big change I've noticed between growing up in a small town and now where I'm in my mid 40s in a big metro city in India is increased "transactional" nature of interactions of my daily life. Back then we had a deeper ties with all those who served us by which I mean vegetable vendor, carpenter, doctor, knife sharpener, cloth shop, grocer, baker and so on. Whenever we interacted with them it would be a small chit-c…

Everyone is under more pressure thanks to cost of living and Western society being a property-indexed Ponzi scheme which requires endless growth just to keep up. Back when rent/home ownership was affordable and everyone had more "slack" it's easy to add humanity to transactions - you can spare the small opportunity cost even though you'd make more money short-term ignoring humanity and focusing purely on transactiona…

It's mildly interesting to consider that one of the main arguments against an economically deflationary society is that people would have a motivation to hoard money which might deter things like investment or lending, yet in an inflationary society few seem concerned about the fact that we create a system that motivates trying to hoard 'things', including land. It also motivates trying to rent things to people instead of selling it to them.

1971 is the year that we default on our obligations under Bretton Woods enabling the US to begin printing money at our own discretion. It's quite interesting to see how that year ended up being a huge inflection point for so absurdly many issues. [1] It resulted in a rapid increase in wealth, but came with a rapid increase in issues alongside it.

[1] - https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#683

Post by somenameforme »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #510
ip26 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would call that the difference between a small town and a city, which isn't new. You establish those ties because you see the same grocer regularly - there's only two grocers in town, after all. Meanwhile, in the city, you could buy groceries twice a week and never see the same clerk twice.

There can be small grocers in big cities and faceless corporations in small towns, in fact in my experience in midwest America small towns (sub 5000, say) have 0 shops, people drive the 15 minutes to the nearest walmart midsize cities / college towns ~100k will have a specialty butcher and a tobacconist where you can actually get to know the shopowners

I'd generally agree with the stuff about everybody just driving to Walmart, but that was just to stock up on nonperishables/freezeables. There was always the local mini mart/gas station, movie store, school, church, pool hall, bar, etc. And everybody tends to know everybody anyhow, because you often have inter-family relations dating back generations.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#684

Post by lotsofpulp »

anon291 wrote: post #666
lotsofpulp wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women in particular used to work for themselves Women only recently got the right to manage their own assets, and in some societies it is still in the process of happening. >and their families, Yes, they used to work for their families.

Keeping our discussion to Spain, women have been able to manage their own assets for a long time (including married woman). Let's not project english law onto the whole world.

Wikipedia says 1930s for women’s civil rights in Spain, which I count as recent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage_in_the_Span...

It also takes generations for the rights to fully take effect, for example women being refused services by sexist men or hitting glass ceilings at work.

Even in the US, I can see very different changes in the treatment and expectations of my older women cousins who grew up in the 1980s and 1990s versus those who grew up in the 2000s and 2010s.

Same laws, but the rate of change from those laws accelerated as older generations died out and critical mass in the population with the new views takes hold.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#685

Post by silverquiet »

anon291 wrote: post #668
silverquiet wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with the comment, but whenever people talk about a "love of the USA", I always want to ask what is it that you love? To stereotype a bit, I'm guessing that it will not be the federal government (despite a strong reverence for the flag of that government).

I love the people of the United States; our shared values; our shared culture. I view the United States as more than just an ideology as outlined in our constitution but also a distinct group of people with a distinct culture with a shared past and a shared future. This is why I bristle when people get upset by terms like American exceptionalism. Yes, America has a unique culture. America is also objectively superlat…

I assume nearly every culture believes that they are uniquely superlative in some way though; ironically this seems like a highly conserved quality of human psychology.

If anything, a lot of the praise of America seems to be the federation of culture; I’ve heard it said the that it is not one country, but fifty different ones.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#686

Post by Barrin92 »

anon291 wrote: post #654
Barrin92 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's arguably only effective if you genuinely believe the truth claims of the faith. There is this sort of strange very online revival of "trad" beliefs but you can literally tell that the people are trying to gaslight themselves into believing something they don't. Sort of a split-brain religion at best. Nietzsche's aphorism about God being dead was correct, as was his prediction about the future. Religion wouldn't…

It's actually 'okay' to gaslight yourself into believing something you don't. That is the basis of human society and mental health. I mean, everyone gaslights themselves into believing all sorts of weird statements on reality, such as 'my parents love me unconditionally' (realistically, there are probably conditions attached).

It's okay to make aspirational claims or commitments like, "I'm going to do my best to love my children unconditionally". It's not mentally healthy to tell yourself "my marriage is great" when your marriage is in fact in shambles. In an extreme case say, believing your parents or spouse love you unconditionally if they're abusing you might destroy a life. A lot of relationships probably decay beyond repair because people don't face reality early enough.

Personal commitments, even if idealistic are good, trying to talk yourself into facts about reality that you don't even believe is never good. And most religions of course make those demands. It's basically like being in the late Soviet Union. Everything is great, everyone is equal, you leave the house and there's a doctor selling cigarettes and vodka on the streets to survive. And basically when in your mind you see that double-think it's already over in a way.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#687

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

anon291 wrote: post #642
ip26 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would call that the difference between a small town and a city, which isn't new. You establish those ties because you see the same grocer regularly - there's only two grocers in town, after all. Meanwhile, in the city, you could buy groceries twice a week and never see the same clerk twice.

> Meanwhile, in the city, you could buy groceries twice a week and never see the same clerk twice. So even a cursory reading of older books and novels that detail city life just a few hundred years ago shows this not to be the case. What's gone on is that the phenomenon described above has started in cities and spread everywhere, for better or worse.

The city of Rome had a population of a million people. The anonymity of the crowd is not new it's been here for millennia.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#688

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

anon291 wrote: post #643
theossuary wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the issue is pedantic people like you who can't understand that "want" is a simple way of saying that a system is biased towards certain outcomes. Capitalism is not an expression of human nature, it's a single possible pareto equilibrium. To say otherwise ignores huge swaths of humans history, and many modern nations which have achieved equilibrium in different ways.

Capitalism is biased towards whatever the governing authority says it is. In America, due to onerous regulations and taxes, it's difficult for independent players to become established and the regulations favor a handful of large companies in most sectors. This is not universally true in every country, and they're just as capitalist (arguably more so) than us

Onerous? More like pathetically lacking.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#689

Post by kragen »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #687
anon291 wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, in the city, you could buy groceries twice a week and never see the same clerk twice. So even a cursory reading of older books and novels that detail city life just a few hundred years ago shows this not to be the case. What's gone on is that the phenomenon described above has started in cities and spread everywhere, for better or worse.

The city of Rome had a population of a million people. The anonymity of the crowd is not new it's been here for millennia.

i live in a city with a population of 14 million people, but still most of my everyday transactional interactions like buying churros, chicken wings, or electrical supplies are with people i know and transact with repeatedly. that's because i walk there, lacking a motor vehicle. i imagine this was also true of day-to-day commerce in ancient rome, and of course the patron-client and master-slave relationships that were so central in roman society were anything but anonymous

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#690

Post by emchammer »

vishnugupta wrote: post #101

One big change I've noticed between growing up in a small town and now where I'm in my mid 40s in a big metro city in India is increased "transactional" nature of interactions of my daily life. Back then we had a deeper ties with all those who served us by which I mean vegetable vendor, carpenter, doctor, knife sharpener, cloth shop, grocer, baker and so on. Whenever we interacted with them it would be a small chit-c…

Seems to be correlated with PIN pads capable of displaying text.

"Do you have a telephone number with us?"

"It's going to ask you a question." (About how much tip to add to your bill)

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