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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#681

Post by Barrin92 »

np- wrote: post #359
torpfactory wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a very sizable number of low paying, dirty, dangerous, and/or boring jobs that we can’t find enough locals to do. Think farm hands, home care aides, meat processors, etc. Unskilled immigrants do those jobs because that’s what is available to them (I.e unskilled). If they weren’t doing those jobs, we’d have to pay significantly more for the goods and services that labor depends on. Immigrant labor is disinflat…

I’m always deeply uncomfortable with this argument. It sounds like justification for a “slave” class to do undesirable jobs with no legal protections and sub minimum wage, just so Americans can save a few bucks at the supermarket. But at what moral cost? We can’t have it both ways—if they’re here working, then it needs to be at full American wage with full American regulation/oversight. But that itself defeats the pu…

>It sounds like justification for a “slave” class to do undesirable jobs

It's the exact opposite. The slavery is being trapped in Cuba which the person decided to leave by their own free will to make it to America, where working a terrible factory job is going to make them ten times richer than they would have been otherwise.

Is you being uncomfortable with this idea actually more important than giving that person a shot to work himself to a normal American life within two decades and certainly for their kids?

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#682

Post by 1oooqooq »

brigadier132 wrote: post #62
vundercind wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

Do you own anything of value? What about your family? Now let's try practicing some empathy: How would you feel if I just took that from you?

thanks for letting us know you never read a book and take lessons from the tv.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#683

Post by ithkuil »

silisili wrote: post #126
ithkuil wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much is that a selection bias (they are the ones that left and went to the US after all)

That's a fair point. One thing I will say, having lived near many in FL at one time, they are some of the most patriotic and pro USA people. I always appreciated that in a way, as I think a lot of us take it for granted.

The world would be a quite different place if the majority of people in each country made rational choices for their own good. I don't think we should single out Cubans for that

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#684

Post by AaronFriel »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #679
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

98% of women in Somalia are sexually mutilated. Guess what Somalis are doing in France to their little girls? That s right: they re mutilating them. But I take it 98% of Somalis women getting sexually mutilated in Somalia is the fault of colonization or something?

Blanket accusations like this are racist. Genital mutilation is an abhorrent practice. While the impact is uniquely horrible for women, it is definitely "throwing stones in glass houses" to act as though it's a strange cultural practice to damage the nerves of a child's genitals, a practice done to millions of boys in Europe by those of multi-generational European descent.

Now, you could be opposed to both practices of course, but you are choosing to make a blanket accusation to suit a point of view.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#685

Post by danielheath »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #679
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

98% of women in Somalia are sexually mutilated. Guess what Somalis are doing in France to their little girls? That s right: they re mutilating them. But I take it 98% of Somalis women getting sexually mutilated in Somalia is the fault of colonization or something?

I mean, it’s drawing a _bit_ of a long bow, but there’s a pretty cogent argument to be made that European powers in many nations funded/armed criminal gangs (by buying slaves/selling weapons), and those gangs took over the country with that backing, which destroyed what public institutions existed, and normalised “strongman coercion”.

There’s various points and counterpoints within that and I’m woefully ill equipped to evaluate them, but it’s not wrong “prima fasciae”.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#686

Post by skrebbel »

noduerme wrote: post #322
gottorf wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

Great observation. I’m European and I agree.

We Europeans love to look down upon America when it comes to stuff like functional government, bicycle paths and public services, but wrt immigration we’re so far behind the US, it’s not even funny.

> a path toward integration (as in, "to become American"; there is neither an equivalent aspiration nor option "to become French")

We really need to copy this vibe wholesale from the US (and Canada). That people can move here but even their grandchildren won’t feel that they’re properly French (or in my case, Dutch) is obscene.

I like your observation that the root cause is the ethnic character of our states but that doesn’t mean we can’t take a note or two out of the American playbook. Truth is we’re not even trying.

Instead we’re hopelessly split between the left who stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that there’s a problem (and calls you a racist when you try), and the right who want to hold onto some ethnic nation state pipedream that we never were and never will be.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#687

Post by [deleted] »

noduerme wrote: post #322
gottorf wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

[deleted]

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#689

Post by 1oooqooq »

inglor_cz wrote: post #177
OJFord wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't that deliberate oppression though? Not that I'm pro-communism as an ideal or anything (I favour free-market conservatism) I'm just not sure it can be blamed for ineptitude/mismanagement there as the joke implies?

It was mostly incompetence mixed with a lot of corruption and petty theft. Publicly owned businesses had no incentives to compete on quality, had to fulfill centralized plans designed by distant bureaucrats that weren't completely attached to reality. Western products were mostly unavailable or extremely costly, so no substitution possible. Lots of ossified monopolies. Factory leaders were often chosen on the base of…

every "open and capitalist" country also had 10yrs wait for a copper phone line. besides the top 3 countries economically at the time from were you hear your make believe stories, most other countries until the 80sv phone line contacts were used to buy cars and homes. sometimes the lines were not even installed.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#690

Post by 1oooqooq »

dimgl wrote: post #667
PentiumBug wrote: post #290

As a Cuban that is currently living in Cuba, I think it might be useful to voice my opinions, as I have read some comments here which I consider less than accurate in some respects. To avoid typing too much, I'll summarize with... bullet points? * The published figure of 10 million people is already outdated. First, they are official figures, which means that they are not telling the truth. Second, six months have el…

> Is Cuba a dictatorship? No. Lol Cuban here. This is disingenuous. By definition and in theory, a military dictatorship and a uniparty "republic" are not the same. In practice, it is very much the same. They are extremely dangerous, oppressive regimes that are dominated by few families.

you could have read the next line...
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