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In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

nytimes.com

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Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#681

Post by rayiner »

datavirtue wrote: post #618
rayiner wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t get me wrong. I love the Japanese transit system. It’s a marvel. But rich people in Japan usually drive because it’s faster than even an amazing transit system. And the beauty of somewhere like Atlanta is that everyone can live like that. It’s also extremely inconvenient with three kids, especially if you’re trying to bring a stroller onto the train during rush hour. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that every…

It's not just that the transit is faster by car but there is less mental overhead. Just get in the car and drive at your pace instead of memorizing schedules (or futzing with an app) and negotiating crowds.

Also, virtually any train system that is good enough to be comparable to driving time-wise will also be busy enough to require standing through the trip during commuting hours.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#682

Post by rayiner »

pkulak wrote: post #642
rayiner wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars fit in cities just fine. Just got back from Atlanta. Much nicer and cleaner and cheaper than New York City. The only problem is the pollution, which is fixed by EVs. The other stuff, like a few tens of thousands of deaths in car crashes a year, is vastly outweighed by the time saved by everyone else compared to even an excellent public transit system. Trains are not the solution. Even the best train systems are…

I can get everywhere I need to go in NYC with a few bucks loaded onto a transit card. In Atlanta I need to rent a car for $100s a day, drive it myself, pay for it's gas, its insurance and parking, prove to the local government that I'm certified to drive it, and also not impaired from driving it at the moment. How do you get "cheaper" from that? "nicer" and "cleaner" mean the same thing, and I'll give those to you. W…

It’s not just the poor people. Even the non-poor people in New York are gross from the sweating and grit.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#683

Post by someguydave »

standardUser wrote: post #217
someguydave wrote: post #6

I am skeptical that all the tradeoffs are being considered here, it sounds like a recipe for permanent bad traffic justified with dubious moralizing. By the way, she is the daughter of Jack Lew who was President Obama’a Chief of Staff.

And who are you the daughter of, since these facts are clearly of paramount significance?

Sometimes people on the left are concerned about nepo babies and the outsized influence of the wealthy and powerful, sometimes people on the left are not concerned.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#684

Post by gnicholas »

languagehacker wrote: post #51

I just read Paved Paradise as well as The High Cost of Free Parking. This seems like the current gradual trend towards reversing the hidden subsidy for drivers, first by giving them less affordances at remarkably low prices or for free. A few folks in the comments have mentioned a couple of times that it doesn't make sense to make a policy like this without supporting transit. I believe the argument would be that not…

I was going to read The High Cost of Free Parking, until I saw that it's 800 pages long. Did you read the whole thing, skim, or entirely skip parts? I am familiar with the general argument and feel like 800 pages is too much for a book on the subject (at least for my taste).

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#685

Post by lizknope »

I wish governments would incentivize working from home. We've already seen that this can be done effectively for a huge percentage of the population. In 2019 I was spending about $250 on gasoline a month. In 2020 with mandatory work from home that dropped to about $50 a month. When I did go out there was no traffic which lead to even less fuel wasted. Instead we have politicians and business leaders pushing for people to return to the office. I work in a huge office park with huge parking lots. That is so much land that could be used for apartments, condos, single family homes, or anything more useful than half empty offices that very few want to go to.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#686

Post by osigurdson »

tsimionescu wrote: post #647
osigurdson wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is literally what we have now.

No, in most cities most people by far use public transit for their commute. And in most cities, especially where this is not exactly true, car traffic is already hellish at rush hour.

I wonder what most of the commuters do at work? Sit in front of a computer maybe?

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#687

Post by alamortsubite »

rayiner wrote: post #585
8organicbits wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans have an obsession with strollers that I haven't understood. I took my infants on Caltrain, BART, and light rail using a baby bjorn. When they could walk, they walked or were carried. It's not something you should avoid having kids over.

American babies are heavy.

American babies are about the same or maybe a bit lighter than their European counterparts at birth. Perhaps the issue is that American parents are physically weaker. It's hard not to imagine the SUVs and strollers are components of a negative feedback loop.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#688

Post by pkulak »

rayiner wrote: post #682
pkulak wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get everywhere I need to go in NYC with a few bucks loaded onto a transit card. In Atlanta I need to rent a car for $100s a day, drive it myself, pay for it's gas, its insurance and parking, prove to the local government that I'm certified to drive it, and also not impaired from driving it at the moment. How do you get "cheaper" from that? "nicer" and "cleaner" mean the same thing, and I'll give those to you. W…

It’s not just the poor people. Even the non-poor people in New York are gross from the sweating and grit.

Okay, if you can't handle being around other people, then don't live in NY. But, what's your point here? Cus I know you hate it, but supply and demand says that waaaay more people like NYs than there actually _are_ NYs. People who can only exist in giant metal boxes, sealed off from the world at all times, can choose to live in nearly any city in America and live their bliss. But not everyone is you. You shouldn't have to be a millionaire to live in a real city. We can make Seattle and SF and Portland and Boston and Philly better without Houston and Atlanta even noticing.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#689

Post by dyauspitr »

hkpack wrote: post #569
dyauspitr wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s so great about transit besides the environmental savings. Having to share space with other people, walk to the train station, put up with a train schedule, have no way to travel past some arbitrary time (midnight to 2am in most places), no way to transport large items or groceries, no way to go off the beaten path, having to live in densely populated cities with no room for any activities. I like the idea of h…

> having to live in densely populated cities with no room for any activities. Depends on activities, I guess, but my experience is the opposite, densely populated areas has vastly more activities available within 20-30 minutes reach especially to parents with kids.

Like what? There are a lot of toddler gyms, sports fields, art schools, music lessons, pools etc. in the suburbs. But you can’t easily woodwork, metalwork, garden, shoot guns, fish, kayak, hike trails, raise chickens/goats etc in the city.

As someone that lived in Manhattan for many years as an adult all I could think of doing was restaurants, bars, broadway shows and walks in Central Park.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#690

Post by jayd16 »

avalys wrote: post #634
jayd16 wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Los Angeles so excuse my hardy laughter. I'm sure Austin is great but that commute time will surely balloon as the population density continues to rise. Austin has ~3000/sq mi vs Tokyo's ~16,000/sq mi.

Why should population density continue to rise? Have you ever flown over Texas?

Ever driven through the California central valley? Just because the state has space doesn't mean cities don't get dense.
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