Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war • Hacker News Board

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#681

Post by wara23arish » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:08 PM UTC

incognos wrote: post #594

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Thank you, even Betselem (israeli human rights org) claims that israel is an apartheid state.

People will also use the holocaust to justify this somehow. Americans are brainwashed since theyre in elementary school by “learning about the holocaust” literally year after year. All this has led to justify any wrongdoings israel has done.

At the end of the day, israel is a colonial entity, its not welcome in the region and will never will be. Hopefully I can live long enough to see its demise, but I know I will die knowing that it will no longer exist in the lifetimes following me.

It’s unnatural and is held up by excessive funding from the West. hopefully they can transition peacefully but until then I view every violent action against them as justified.

They occupied all of south lebanon for 20 years (after the PLO was completely expelled to Algeria). Only violent resistance was able to expel them.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#682

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:09 PM UTC

ildjarn wrote: post #571

Is it appropriate to call this a war? To me it seems more like a nation state fighting a terrorist group, with heavy civilian losses.

[deleted]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Post by GordonS » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:09 PM UTC

rendall wrote: post #675

GordonS wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you know that Israel tried to give Gaza back to Egypt and West Bank back to Jordan? This is revisionist history - Gaza was never even part of Egypt! [0] Netanyahu's plans for "Greater Israel" (which includes the West Bank and Gaza) also run contrary to this claim. > Israel doesn't want it Israel's actions say otherwise. And let's not forget that Israel continues to illegally occupy land in Lebanon and Syria - t…

> This is revisionist history - Gaza was never even part of Egypt So confident and yet so wrong. This is literally history. Are you pro-Hamas because you don't know the history of the region, or do you not know the history region because you're motivated to ignore it where it contradicts your pro-Hamas narrative? From whom did Israel seize control of Gaza in 1967?

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Post by gryzzly » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:10 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #668

bennyz wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thousands of Palestinian hostages? What are you talking about? Please clarify, as I assume you are not talking about prisoners convicted of terror activities.

> convicted of terror activities Yes, such as "throwing stones" at armoured vehicles - truly despicable! Many are held without charge too. And many are held under "administrative detention", which means they can be held in a dungeon, without charge, forever . These are not the actions of a modern, progressive, democratic country. I'm sure that some are imprisoned for good reason, buy many are there for spurious reaso…

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Post by rbanffy » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:12 PM UTC

incognos wrote: post #598

sharikous wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even accepting that, you can ask what is the limit after which you can say that the occupied does morally reprehensible things

How about when the occupier does morally reprehensible things? how should you react? turn the other cheek? Thank you sir, may I have another... ( https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.... ) Notably: The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that: The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory. Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the o…

There is the legal - armed resistance to an occupation is legal - and there is moral - armed resistance attacking unarmed civilians is never morally right.

Settling occupied territory is neither legal, nor moral. Bombing hospitals is both illegal and immoral, as so many other things the IDF has been doing for the past months. Then there are the crimes committed against Palestinians over the past 80 or so years - it's not because the government is different that your ownership rights can be ignored.

This becomes worse when the governing political parties in question, Hamas and Likud, have charters that exclude the possibility of peaceful coexistence.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Post by sgift » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:12 PM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #647

jdietrich wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany, Italy and Japan unconditionally surrendered. The Marshall Plan didn't create peace, it rebuilt societies once peace had been established. Do we imagine that Germany would have agreed to peace in 1944 or 1939 if only the Allies had given enough aid?

Palestine has been under de facto Israeli control for more than 50 years. Israel won this war a long, long time ago. And instead of helping to build a place for Palestinians to live, they kept them under direct military occupation until 2005, then under blockade plus air raids (in retaliation for Palestinian attacks, but usually ending up with a 10:1 ratio of dead Palestinians for each killed Israeli citizen). What t…

> And instead of helping to build a place for Palestinians to live, they kept them under direct military occupation until 2005, then under blockade plus air raids (in retaliation for Palestinian attacks, but usually ending up with a 10:1 ratio of dead Palestinians for each killed Israeli citizen).

Gaza got billions of aid since 2005. Water pipes were built, material was delivered. What happened with it? They built one of the biggest underground tunnel systems in the world (as we can see right now), they dug out the pipes to use them for rockets, same with the material. And all the time they attacked Israel and then said "we cannot live in peace, Israel blockades us", leaving the 'after we attacked them again and again' part out.

Palestinians had all the help in the world to live a peaceful life in the Gaza strip with more freedoms over time if they can show that that freedoms don't lead to more dead Israelis. Each time they chose violence instead.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Post by marcosdumay » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:12 PM UTC

falcor84 wrote: post #537

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> aren't Hamas literally the government of Gaza? The Kims are the government of North Korea. That doesn’t mean they serve its people. > Have they been renounced by the population in favor of any other government? Difficult to tell. Hamas did away with elections in their 2007 coup [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)

Up until quite recently in history, the vast majority of countries have been controlled by unelected autocrats, and as you say, some still are. But I don't recall that ever bothered us from associating conflicts with the countries as a whole.

We mostly don't waste time dwelling on the ethics of long dead people, and the few that do are usually seen as some ivory-tower kinds without any concern for present issues.

But rest assured that the people that study those things know quite well it's the country leaders declaring wars, not the people.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Post by GordonS » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:13 PM UTC

bennyz wrote: post #672

GordonS wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> convicted of terror activities Yes, such as "throwing stones" at armoured vehicles - truly despicable! Many are held without charge too. And many are held under "administrative detention", which means they can be held in a dungeon, without charge, forever . These are not the actions of a modern, progressive, democratic country. I'm sure that some are imprisoned for good reason, buy many are there for spurious reaso…

You are moving the goalposts and reaching. Administrative detention is used on Israelis too, this is not the argument here. Those released in the latest exchange and in the Gilad Shalit exchange were convicted, many of which had innocent blood on their hands. Hamas isn't looking to correct the Israeli justice system, and you are calling actual and attempted murderers hostages...

> Those released in the latest exchange and in the Gilad Shalit exchange were convicted

Yes, and the list of crimes was made public. Many of them were indeed "throwing stones".

As I said, some are definitely held because of terrible crimes they actually committed; however, it must be noted that Palestinians are tried under an apartheid system, by a military court. Furthermore, it seems that many are held for no good reason, and many are tortured or sexually abused - confirmed by human rights groups.

BTW, if a convicted prisoner dies before they complete their sentence, they keep the body on ice until the sentence expires - that is just... evil.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#689

Post by hef19898 » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:16 PM UTC

gryzzly wrote: post #684

GordonS wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> convicted of terror activities Yes, such as "throwing stones" at armoured vehicles - truly despicable! Many are held without charge too. And many are held under "administrative detention", which means they can be held in a dungeon, without charge, forever . These are not the actions of a modern, progressive, democratic country. I'm sure that some are imprisoned for good reason, buy many are there for spurious reaso…

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Adding up this kind of numbers gets you no where, well, it gets you to a very dark place. In Gaza, it already did...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#690

Post by blurbleblurble » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:17 PM UTC

incognos wrote: post #607

tromp wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel neither occupied nor controlled the Gaza interior prior to Hamas' attack. They only controlled the border and what goes in and out of Gaza (some cross border tunnels excepted). Within Gaza, Hamas and the Palistinian National Authority ruled.

They did both... They control everything that goes in and out of gaza: I quote from MSNBC "Despite pleas from the United Nations and human rights groups, Israel has maintained a land, air and sea blockade on Gaza since 2007 that has had a devastating effect on Palestinian civilians." How do you rule if you control nothing? all the utilities are controlled by Israel. Travel, nope, controlled by Israel. Exports, nope,…

I think it would be appropriate to put Hamas leadership, Trump, Biden and Bibi all in there along with a host of others. They're all produced by the same awful games that reward powerful, reprehensible men, promoting even those with majority disapproval to the top of the chain.