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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#681

Post by aurelien_gasser »

ajross wrote: post #623
pgeorgi wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7? This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

> All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? It remains a mess, but less of a mess? Look, it's all bad guys running the show in that hell hole of a desert. There are no trusted entities anywhere able to run a government that isn't somewhere between actively antagonistic and actively genocidal toward half the local population. Nonetheless a status quo with less shooting and death i…

> Hamas killed fewer people than Israel did/is

That's an understatement, Hamas killed less than 1,000 civilians, Israel killed 20,000+

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#682

Post by bitcurious »

surume wrote: post #263

Hi All, I am a combat soldier and commander in the IDF currently fighting in Gaza. We are not committing any genocide. The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not. Yes there is collateral damage because Hamas uses civilians as human shields, so we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them. We risk ourselves and our soldiers to ensure that the…

>Personally, as a commander, I would like to say that I have no ill feelings towards the Palestinian people, but we need to get as many of the hostages back as possible, and we cannot allow Hamas to continue ruling Gaza and attacking our civilians as they did on October 7th.

I'm curious about this - the idea that both goals are achievable is a fiction. You either get the hostages, or you eliminate Hamas. Do y'all talk about this?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#684

Post by Aeolun »

pgeorgi wrote: post #474
locallost wrote: post #466

My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246 Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important. Quote: "Westerners must ope…

All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7? This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

> All correct and yet, what should happen?

Happy, fed, employed people do not become terrorists. They have too much to lose.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#685

Post by shortsunblack »

w0mbat wrote: post #600

The ruling also ordered Hamas to release all hostages, and Hamas has previously claimed they would abide by any ruling of the court. I find it unlikely though that they will comply.

Hamas is not a state. ICJ is a tribunal that adjudicates disputes between states. ICJ has no jurisdiction to rule in regards to Hamas. Neither can Hamas bring a case against Israel, as it has no standing, considering it is not a party to the international treaty.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#686

Post by Aeolun »

mderazon wrote: post #630
anon84873628 wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? And then everyone who wants peace invests lots of money and expertise over a long time to build a modern, prosperous, stable Palestinian society, despite whatever setbacks, attacks, and sabotage occur from within and without. The only way to have peace is to give people a better option than becoming terrorists.

This is looking at the conflict from western eyes. Religious fundamentalists don't think like that

And yet, women in Afghanistan were happy going to university until we let the fundamentalists back in.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#687

Post by starik36 »

w0mbat wrote: post #600

The ruling also ordered Hamas to release all hostages, and Hamas has previously claimed they would abide by any ruling of the court. I find it unlikely though that they will comply.

They probably claimed it because in their delusion they thought the court would unconditionally side with them.

Unlikely that they will release the hostages just because a court said so.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#688

Post by alexisread »

drc500free wrote: post #394
biorach wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel shows every day that they are willing and able to live closely with the Palestinians who accept their right to exist and aren't trying to murder their families, without using apartheid-like systems of control This is very much not the case in the West Bank where expropriation and colonisation of Palestinian land by Israeli settlers continue, under the watchful eye of the Israeli army. The Israeli state has d…

I agree that the actions in the occupied territories are oppressive and terrible. I was referring to the actions within Israel itself, towards Israeli Arab Citizens. Which shows that the oppressive actions is not based on ethnicity or religion, it's based on fear.

Thing is, that fear is taught in schools, a large part if not most of the Israeli population are too young to remember the holocaust, so this is propagation of fear on a national scale, and to what end?

Additional, yes there are discriminatory laws within Israel, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law

And https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/27/israeli-protests-ca...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#689

Post by ajross »

aurelien_gasser wrote: post #681
ajross wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? It remains a mess, but less of a mess? Look, it's all bad guys running the show in that hell hole of a desert. There are no trusted entities anywhere able to run a government that isn't somewhere between actively antagonistic and actively genocidal toward half the local population. Nonetheless a status quo with less shooting and death i…

> Hamas killed fewer people than Israel did/is That's an understatement, Hamas killed less than 1,000 civilians, Israel killed 20,000+

[flagged]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#690

Post by nomdep »

dang wrote: post #679
nomdep wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's not accurate. It's common for people with strong feelings on a topic to leap to the conclusion that the mods are biased against their side and secretly supporting the opposite. This happens from every perspective on every divisive topic. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

You are right, it's unfair because there is no strong evidence to make that assertion.

I don't mind about what are your personal political affiliations or sympathies, however, I still maintain that this topic is textbook against the guidelines, and because of that I'm still afraid we will see post against candidate X in the front page in a few months. Time will tell.

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