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Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

nightshade.cs.uchicago.edu

681–690 of 710 posts

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#681
post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my body is in a public space you have the right to force me to have sex with you, I guess? That's your logic after all.

Data you put up on the internet is not your body. Do I really have to explain this? You know I don't. Do better.

I'm at a food truck and you happen to see and memorize all my CC data and use it because it was in public so it was fair game. Or I was paying using apple pay on the most expensive iPhone available so you take that because it was out in public and if I didn't want anyone grabbing it I shouldn't have brought it out.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of artist is not going to be bothered with seeing huge artifacting on their work? Btw for me it was immediately noticeable even on mobile

If it's huge, then why are multiple people commenting that they don't see a difference?

Kid me found 13 FPS in games to be a smooth and cursive experience. Current me thinks 60 FPS is laggy.

Standards differ. I saw glazed images in the wild, was wondering why they have so much JPEG artifacts, until I saw the post of one of those anti-AI + glaze images on his profile.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's huge, then why are multiple people commenting that they don't see a difference?

That is a great mystery, to me it's as clear as if someone pasted a cartoon dog onto the image, it's extremely blatant and impossible to ignore by my normal human pattern recognition.

I'm looking at them on my iPhone 14 Pro and I am having a hard time seeing any meaningful difference that changes the way the artwork registers with me.

I can't really imagine a case where if I had only seen the AI edited one I would have any different reaction or response to viewing the piece of art compared to having only seen the original one.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#684
post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The very concept that a thing cannot be copied. That is the obvious falsehood that we are compelled to pretend is true. No, copyright law does _not_ compel us to believe that things cannot be copied. Instead, it establishes consequence of illegal copying. I'm flabbergasted that you, so far, don't recognize a simple and foundational difference between "can" and "should".

If I used every word in precisely the context you expect, then what in the world would I have to say to you?

> If I used every word in precisely the context you expect, then what in the world would I have to say to you?

Lots, I'm sure. / Besides, this is a straw man. And it misses the point. I am opposed to your choice of language, not because I'm trying to "control" how you frame or prioritize things, but because it suggests a deep misunderstanding of fundamental concepts. You claimed that copyright law forces people to believe that one cannot copy things. This is ridiculous. I hope you can see this.

Copyright law establishes probabilistic consequences for certain behaviors. Many people would view copyright law as being _normative_ (in that it defines right and wrong). I agree that it sets norms, even if I don't necessarily agree on the wisdom of the chosen norms. Laws are wise and just only to the extent they align to deeper principles.

You and I probably agree with many of the downsides of copyright law, even if our final takes are different, but that's not very interesting. In another comment, I linked to some articles on the topic by legal experts. I truly hope no one cares very much about my or your points of view about copyright law; I hope people go and read something by the experts instead. Of course, I'm not saying they are infallible. But there is a huge between armchair commenters on HN and someone with hundreds of hours of focused study and experience actively debating with others at a similar level.

Here is what is interesting to me: how have you ended up with these bizarre conceptualizations? Why are you sticking to them? Is it largely inertia and/or ego? I haven't ruled out a high degree of contrarianism as well. Perhaps even just wanting to get a reaction. Otherwise, you seem reasonable, so I'm puzzled.

Another point: Are you familiar with Orwell's ideas of thoughtcrime? That would be an example of law and society attempting to force people to believe something. Even so, as we know from the novel, that twisted goal cannot be fully achieved even in a totalitarian society.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any time you use something with "fair use" in mind, it is the equivalent of saying, "I'm going to steal this, and hopefully, a court agrees that this is fair use." Thousands of reviews, book reports, quotations on fan sites and so on are published daily; you seem to be arguing that they are all copyright violations unless and until the original copyright holder takes those reviewers, seventh graders, and Tumblr sta…

Think it’s time to rethink do journalists actually own the rights to articles about the lives and actions of others. It’s not Harry Potter, they wouldn’t have written those words without someone else doing something of note the journo has nothing to do with, they just observed from a far and wrote the words about what happened from memory. Kinda like an AI reads the action of their writing then can report on their wr…

Such a requirement would make actual investigative journalism all but impossible.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At full size it's super obvious - I made a side-by-side: https://i.imgur.com/I6EQ05g.png

I still don't see a difference. (Mobile)

Look at the forehead and arms. The processed version looks like it's been run through a posterization filter.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#687
post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data you put up on the internet is not your body. Do I really have to explain this? You know I don't. Do better.

I'm at a food truck and you happen to see and memorize all my CC data and use it because it was in public so it was fair game. Or I was paying using apple pay on the most expensive iPhone available so you take that because it was out in public and if I didn't want anyone grabbing it I shouldn't have brought it out.

Your phone example is just theft unless I'm misreading...do you want to go down the path of calling copyright infringement theft?

As for the card example it is on you to keep secrets secret. It is clearly a fault with how credit cards work and for things like that you should get insurance. Keep your card safe, or better yet, use cash. We can call it theft, doesn't matter to my point.

There is no "taking" or "grabbing" anything, I visited your website and was served a copy of the data because you made it do so. You wanted it to happen, for the public to see it, that was your goal. You expected it to happen. Do you disagree that me acquiring a copy was consensual? If so it is very different from the hypotheticals you're posing don't you think?

Once a copy is in my possession you would need to initiate violence to stop me from training a model on it which puts you on the wrong side of the moral line.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Novels aren't about a message. They're entertainment. If the novel is entertaining then it's irrelevant whether there is or isn't a message in it. Besides, literature enthusiasts will invent a message for a popular story even if there never was one. Also, I'm sure that you can eventually just prompt the model with the message you want to put into the story, if you can't already do that.

I sounds like you don't value art as the purest form of human expression but you'll never be able to convince others to think like you with logic. For my part I think you fundamentally misunderstand the value of creativity but I know I won't change your mind either.

If it was really about the message, then why waste all the time with the rest of the novel? Describe the message in a sentence or two. You could read an entire library of books worth of messages in a few days.

But that wouldn't be helpful. It would've been memorable, because novels aren't just about the message.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#689
post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best attempt at thought monopoly I can think of is religion. Even that is a general failure: no single religious narrative has ever stood constant. They have all evolved through the participation of their adherents. There is no one true Christianity: there are hundreds . I most certainly do mean to call out copyright as willful, but it's not a deception, at least not a successful one: everyone knows it is false.…

The comment above suffers from much rhetoric to serve as a good jumping off point. For those interested, I would recommend the following two articles: ## "Rhetoric and Reality in Copyright Law" by Stewart E. Sterk Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law. https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article... > Why give authors an exclusive right to their writings? Copyright rhetoric generally offers two answers. T…

Correction: "The comment above suffers from _too_ much rhetoric"

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't see a difference. (Mobile)

Have you done a color blindness test before? Red-green is the most common type and the differences here are mostly shades of green.

I typically read HN in bed where the brightness is at the minimum setting. I turned the brightness up and I see it.
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