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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#681

Post by JoshTriplett »

jacquesm wrote: post #517
JoshTriplett wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any kind of law that mentions a company by name should be automatically rejected, unless No "unless". No law should target a specific company or individual by name, ever, whether to give them special exceptions or special permissions or special restrictions or anything else. (They also shouldn't target specific companies by sufficiently-specific-description-it-only-applies-to-one-or-two-companies, either.)

If course they can: laws frequently cite specific cases and specific abuses in their supporting documentation in order to point out the exact intent of the law.

I never said they "can't", I said they shouldn't.

Also, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with citing something as an example in the argumentation around a bill enacting a law (unless it's by way of targeting them with polemic), but there is something fundamentally wrong with putting that in the legal code itself.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#682

Post by Someone1234 »

TylerE wrote: post #666
roody15 wrote: post #419

Interesting timeline. Following the two fatal crashes involving the MCAS system and the 737 Max … The FAA gave Boeing until Dec of 2022 to implement a fix. The fix was to reconfigure the 737 Max with 2 sensors (instead of one) and include an manual shutoff Guess what happened? Boeing didn’t fix anything.. instead they cried to congress that the fix is too expensive and they cannot get it done. So what happens is cong…

That is not at all accurate. The MAX has two AoA sensors from day one.

We're talking about what the MCAS used for input. The aircraft has two AoA sensors and three computers. MCAS used 1 and 1 because it was believed to be non-safety-critical system. Here is a direct quote from Wikipedia's MCAS article:

> Though there are two sensors on the MAX only one of them is used at a time to trigger MCAS activation on the 737 MAX. Any fault in this sensor, perhaps due to physical damage, creates a single point failure: the flight control system lacks any basis for rejecting its input as faulty information.

There is a whole subsection just about MCAS and AoA sensors.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#683

Post by wkat4242 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #544
tavavex wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is pretty concerning. The way how Boeing can get its way simply by threatening to can the entire MAX program (which they'd never actually do) shows that there's a very deep level of integration between the US government and its biggest companies, especially one like Boeing that's often seen as kind of a minor point of national pride. Not only that, but the article mentions that the 737 MAXs got an exemption on p…

Boeing doesn't have a real business plan until they have a plan to replace the 737. Boeing and Airbus have been going crazy over the past 30 years developing widebody airliners, some of which were solidly rejected by the market, but domestic flyers (most of them) are stuck with a 1967 design. It's a disaster when it comes to managing the social and environmental impacts of air travel. A ride in this plane https://en.…

Yes! I rode in an E195 recently and I was kinda dreading it because it's a much smaller plane than a 737. I was so pleasantly surprised how roomy the cabin was. And how quiet and convenient. There was even a little holder for my tablet.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#684

Post by mulmen »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #616
mulmen wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds like a great way to create an airplane company that no competent people will want to run. Is it your assertion that Boeing is currently operated by competent people? They're getting crushed by SpaceX at rockets. How much more of this incompetence will it take before someone does the same to them with airliners? Relying on being "too big to fail" isn't a viable long term strategy. It only lowers the barrier t…

Is it your assertion that Boeing is currently operated by competent people? Is it your assertion that they can't get any worse? Because this sounds like a good way to get worse. You know, they could be killing more than 0.5 people per ten billion passenger miles, right...?

> You know, they could be killing more than 0.5 people per ten billion passenger miles, right...?

You know that current management's numbers are a lot worse than that right?

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#685

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

Dah00n wrote: post #582
ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screw TikTok. It's a cesspool of shit, compounded by its idiotic aspect ratio.

So, as bad as any other social media, yet with access to as much or more information. At least it is better than videos on Facebook or Reddit.

Not always. And "information" is an aggrandizement of TikTok content.

Facebook doesn't even occur to me anymore, and the only videos I see on Reddit are hosted on YouTube.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#686

Post by PaulHoule »

wkat4242 wrote: post #683
PaulHoule wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing doesn't have a real business plan until they have a plan to replace the 737. Boeing and Airbus have been going crazy over the past 30 years developing widebody airliners, some of which were solidly rejected by the market, but domestic flyers (most of them) are stuck with a 1967 design. It's a disaster when it comes to managing the social and environmental impacts of air travel. A ride in this plane https://en.…

Yes! I rode in an E195 recently and I was kinda dreading it because it's a much smaller plane than a 737. I was so pleasantly surprised how roomy the cabin was. And how quiet and convenient. There was even a little holder for my tablet.

It is quieter for folks on the ground too. And it doesn’t get grounded when the temperature is too high nearly as much as the 737.

If people realized you could get widebody comfort in a regional jet they’d quit flying on legacy airlines.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#687

Post by reciprocity »

ygvamjq2ol wrote: post #188

I flew a United MAX 9 last night, I was sitting in the window seat of a visible (Not plugged) emergency exit door. Landed a little while after this incident was reported. About an hour and a half before landing at SFO the pilot announced a hurried “Flight attendants check in” with no follow up announcement to the passengers. It was probably because of the turbulence we had been experiencing a few minutes before, but…

Intercom announcements like "flight attendants check-in" are a matter of routine.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#688

Post by nyokodo »

nimbius wrote: post #654
ekianjo wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capitalism just isnt set up to punish the Bourgeois. Its not a problem of capitalism its a problem of a judicial system having no balls to put execs in prison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swill_milk_scandal The US had one of these scandals too. nobody was arrested, no one charged. Tammany Hall politician Alderman Michael Tuomey, known as "Butcher Mike", defended the distillers vigorously throughout the scandal—in fact, he was put in charge of the Board of Health investigation. The guy basically ended all investigation and shielded all guilty parties.

> The US had one of these scandals too

In 1850, we were in the buildup to the civil war and hadn’t even ended slavery, the political and legal environment were drastically different. I’m not suggesting there aren’t lessons to learn but the comparison is ridiculous.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#689

Post by secabeen »

vc8f6vVV wrote: post #640
cedilla wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying is safer by several orders of magnitude. Especially in the US.

Let's do some math, shall we? > In 2007, the National Transportation Safety Board estimated a total of nearly 24 million flight hours. Of these 24 million hours, 6.84 of every 100,000 flight hours yielded an airplane crash, and 1.19 of every 100,000 yielded a fatal crash. https://www.psbr.law/aviation_accident_statistics.html So we have 330M people in the US, of which let's say 100M are driving regularly. How regular…

The report you seem to be citing is this one, which summarizes the data on General Aviation flights. Those are small private planes. Commercial air transport is not part of General Aviation.

https://www.aopa.org/-/media/files/aopa/home/training-and-sa...

The last passenger death in a US Commercial Air Carrier was in 2019: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_in...

Even assuming your 24-million flight hour number, that would mean 1 death over 100-million flight hours from 2020-2023.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#690

Post by brookst »

phpisthebest wrote: post #623
bobthepanda wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/article-1/#ar... . https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S2-C2-3... > The Constitution gives Congress substantial power to establish federal government offices. As an initial matter, the Constitution vests the legislative power in Congress.1 Article I bestows on Congress certain specified, or enumerated, powers.2 The Court has recognized that these powers…

It is widely known that the Supreme Court has been since at least FDR (if not longer) been derelict in their duty to limit the power of congress by ensuring laws fall into only the powers listed in Article 1 section 8 are accepted as constitutional. Under the current "living document" doctrine adopted by the court the power of the federal government is limitless, and there really is not need for Section 8 of Article…

The idea that the constitution forbids Congress from delegating to the executive is not widely accepted. It is a novel interpretation from a Qanon-adjacent fringe group that wants to dismantle the government by making it too dysfunctional to work. It also creates a strange right for the judiciary to regulate how Congress and the executive choose to work together.
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