Don't just comment and complain, contact your antitrust authority today: US: - https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation - antitrust@ftc.gov EU: - https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust/contact_en - comp-greffe-antitrust@ec.europa.eu UK: - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tell-the-cma-about-a-competition... - general.enquiries@cma.gov.uk India: - https://www.cci.gov.in/antitrust/ - https://www.…
Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
681–690 of 876 posts
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#682Earlier quoted context omitted.
If we're arguing about whether 4% global usage constitutes dead, then yes, it's truly dead and Mozilla is completely irrelevant. Even Microsoft is more important these days (again).
The difference between 0% and 5% is that at 0%, if you want an alternative, you have to write it yourself, but at 5%, the alternative exists. Mozilla is not dead. If you don’t like what Google is doing, don’t pretend that Firefox does not exist. Do something instead. File bug reports, send patches, donate to those who are working on Firefox and countering Google.
Frankly I trust Mozilla's governance even less than Google's. They took an amazing product (Phoenix) and mismanaged it into irrelevance.
If there were a good browser run by a different nonprofit org, I would support that.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#683Earlier quoted context omitted.
It didn't happen when Apple did it with Safari (and you all were quiet as a mouse as well, with HN actively defending Apple Safari monopoly with this feature enabled)... so why would NOW be any different?
Apple don't have enough web properties to force this sort of change. Google can turn around tomorrow and say that no browser without WEI can access GMail, GMaps, GSheets, Photos etc; people will have to comply, effectively killing any browser that does not support the feature. This is the problem with the Chromium monoculture. "We", as generic IT people and developers on HN, definitely have a responsibility for not d…
How are Safari users part of the Chromium monoculture problem?
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#684Mozilla should call for Google's removal from the W3C over this implementation of Web Environment Integrity. "But Chrome has 65% market share, what good is the W3C without them?” If Google can take unilateral action to fundamentally change the basic principles of the web, then the W3C is already useless. This will give Google a clear choice: if they want to maintain the idea that the W3C matters, they should withdraw…
It's far, far too late for this. The W3C is already irrelevant, not that it ever mattered much. The internet is made by big companies. Not standards bodies. The WHATWG has the actual living standards, and Google, Apple, Cloudflare and Amazon make the actual software. Nobody cares about the W3C. And Mozilla is long past dead.
> The W3C is already irrelevant, not that it ever mattered much.
This sounds myopic, or what do you mean? W3C is not only about HTML and CSS innovation, but is responsible for and/or involved in a diverse set of relevant standards — many of which "big companies" don't show as much interest in contributing to.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web_Consortium#St...
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#685Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's far, far too late for this. The W3C is already irrelevant, not that it ever mattered much. The internet is made by big companies. Not standards bodies. The WHATWG has the actual living standards, and Google, Apple, Cloudflare and Amazon make the actual software. Nobody cares about the W3C. And Mozilla is long past dead.
> And Mozilla is long past dead. Mozilla is far from healthy but calling it dead is overstating things.
Mozilla is on life support. Not quite dead. Perhaps in a coma.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#686I'm curious what Brave says to my issue: https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/31897
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#687Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If not for other reasons, I can't see how Google a search company can be allowed to push something that can kill competition using its market dominance in other areas like browsers. Because antitrust has been dead for a while. Chrome is a tool to drive people to Google and Google ads and nothing more. I will say, I did appreciate Microsoft having a browser engine with IE and Edge, even if the former was notoriously…
Unfortunately it seems that nearly all software platforms with a dominant market share, end up degenerating to serve only one purpose: to shove advertisements and subscriptions onto you. My mother's new Windows 11 laptop's out-of-the-box configuration had me clicking through half a dozen things attempting to manipulate me or her into spending more money. There are (I can only assume paid-placement) news and adfotainm…
>to shove advertisements and subscriptions onto you.
There is no other end state in capitalism. If you want tools and products that serve you instead of an owner, you must do it outside capitalism like with truly open source stuff.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#688I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…
what exactly do you want to preserve from the web as we know it today? let it burn focus on building something new, new protocols, new networks, new browsers
Something that isn't dependent upon the whims of princes.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#689Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And Mozilla is long past dead. Mozilla is far from healthy but calling it dead is overstating things.
Less than 5% of global usage [1], and no presence whatsoever on mobile. Pretty much dead. [1]: https://radar.cloudflare.com/adoption-and-usage And CF stats doesn't depend on JavaScript.
I'm writing this on firefox for android. It has 100M+ downloads on the play store.
Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium
#690Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some Google services I regularly depend on (like YouTube and Google Meet) don't work as well on Firefox as they do on Chrome, in ways that actually matter. Besides that I think most websites work fine.
I believe google has intentionally made google maps near unusable in firefox. It's been consistently working worse and worse every year. I feel like about 8 years ago there used to be parity between them.
I think this example is weirdly informative to me.
I mostly use maps via an app (Apple or Google, they seem to be the same for basic use). Usually if I’m using a map, I’ll be using it in my car for navigation, so Firefox doesn’t even come to mind.
I suspect, on top of the “maybe it is internal apps” thing I mentioned at first, some of the really bad sites are the really interactive ones, I probably just use the app without even thinking of it.