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New York City will charge drivers going downtown

cnn.com

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Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#681

Post by ethics13 »

xyzelement wrote: post #456

It's a nice way for the city to make additional revenue, and to reduce driving by those who can't afford it. Let's be real, nobody drives into Manhattan when a truly better option is available, so the only deterrent this offers is how much of a pain $20 really is for someone. If I am a doctor or a wall street guy and driving saves me an hour a day, I am still gonna drive if that costs me an extra $20. If I don't make…

>>If I am a doctor or a wall street guy and driving saves me an hour a day, I am still gonna drive if that costs me an extra $20.

And this really helps this WS guy who has freer roads without those who can't afford the pricing.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#682

Post by ethics13 »

gWPVhyxPHqvk wrote: post #566
xyzelement wrote: post #456

It's a nice way for the city to make additional revenue, and to reduce driving by those who can't afford it. Let's be real, nobody drives into Manhattan when a truly better option is available, so the only deterrent this offers is how much of a pain $20 really is for someone. If I am a doctor or a wall street guy and driving saves me an hour a day, I am still gonna drive if that costs me an extra $20. If I don't make…

I’m a Wall Street guy (well, my office is nearby on Broadway, I’m a dev, but easily able to justify an extra $20) and the thing is that driving in is almost never faster or easier than taking the train! The PATH, which starts in NJ where parking in cheaper, goes right into Lower Manhattan, and it’s a short walk to the office from there. Every time I’ve driven into Manhattan it’s slower than taking the train, except n…

Well, now it will be easier. Those poor sops who can't afford the new pricing are that much less on the road to compete with.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#683

Post by steveBK123 »

spopejoy wrote: post #675
steveBK123 wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to what? I mean.. what good beaches can you get to from NYC, even by car, in 75-100min? That's like how long it takes me to drive to Jones Beach, from Brooklyn, on a good day.

Amazing how many NYCers miss out on Rockaway Beach. Much shorter drive. Accessible by subway. Just a better beach than Jones -- far superior food and entertainment at the concessions, and way way bigger.

Sure, I've been there.

But even living in North Brooklyn, my travel options there are - 59min drive or 75min trains&walking.

People make these grand statements like we've purposely made it impossible for poor people to get to the beach by bus, but everything in NYC is impossible to get to for everyone, all the time.

Anyway, if you are in Manhattan, the real play is LIRR to Long Beach. Frequent trains, extremely clean, lots of space, long boardwalk, rental bikes, lots of food & restaurants, clean restrooms (amazingly rare at US beaches).. $15/person (kids under 13 free, and I think theres a family pass) to enter beach.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#684

Post by steveBK123 »

muh_gradle wrote: post #677
rafram wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in New York City, but no, I haven’t spent time in a random local station near Sugar Hill. Not sure why that would invalidate the rest of my experience. Penn Station is fine. Methadone is taken orally (as a drink) to treat addiction and no syringes are involved, so the methadone clinic wouldn’t have anything to do with syringes in the station.

> Penn Station is fine. Yeah you either don't live in NYC, or you just have a lower standard for basic hygiene. But let's agree to disagree.

Exactly. I worked across the street for 2 years and the things I saw there on a weekly basis were interesting to say the last. My wife worked a block away for 4 years, same story.

Was also the first place I saw an extremely locked down Duane Reade where I had to ask for help to get almost any product off the shelf. Understandable, given the above.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#685

Post by steveBK123 »

mortenjorck wrote: post #198
jmclnx wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I saw London doing that, I expected cities in the US to start that. I am surprised it took so long. I expected this because of the push of toll roads to make people use EZPASS. Depending upon the City, I think this makes sense. But, in the US, I wonder if this will cause another mass migration of people out to the suburbs ? In the US, people are more addicted to their SUVs than heron addicts are to their drug.

A huge part of of why London could pull it off is the exceptional state of the Underground. It’s not hard to wean off cars when the alternative is a clean, fast, modern train a short walk away. NYC is going to have an uphill battle getting the MTA to anywhere near that level, and the MTA itself is already leagues ahead of any other transit system in the US. I would love to see London-tier transit in the United States…

Yup, for example, I live in Brooklyn .. an area with multi-million dollar apartments. And yet, my nearest subway station has had 2 murders in the last 2 years. And I am talking about weekday, 6~8pm timeslot on train or platform. One was a shooting the other was a stabbing.

Were they drug/crime related & therefore targeted, so "well don't worry if you aren't a drug dealer". Sure, maybe! But also, shootings frequently have bystanders hit, as for example the outdoor cafe 2 blocks from said subway did during our covid crime spike.

Does it speak to a general level of violent crime happening in/near subways - obviously yes.

Do I think the city is a mad max chaotic wasteland of death? No. Do I want my subway station that I / my wife transit through a dozen times a week to have less murder? Yes.

NYC urbanists have an incredible level of Stockholm Syndrome with this city and cannot let their guard down to admit there are problems in need of solving that are not entirely "from the left".

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#686

Post by tekknik »

closeparen wrote: post #670
tekknik wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting to me in a free country that you also pay vehicle registration (this is supposed to cover your taxes on road use) that taxes like this are a thing.

Congestion pricing does not interfere with drivers going places other than the city center. They can also still drive to the city center if they value it enough. Deterring people from owning cars altogether, or restricting the spaces and routes drivers can use (in the way cyclists and pedestrians are currently restricted, in this "free" country) would be far more aggressive moves.

That’s the next step isn’t it?

With EVs being near useless outside of city centers and city centers are beginning to charge congestion fees then it’s quite obvious what’s coming next.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#687

Post by tekknik »

bjourne wrote: post #657
tekknik wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting to me in a free country that you also pay vehicle registration (this is supposed to cover your taxes on road use) that taxes like this are a thing.

Don't think it is stranger than publicly funded museums charging entrance fees.

That’s a bit different, but still a head scratcher. You can never go to a museum and still be capable of going to work. You need a car for work most of the time.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#688

Post by closeparen »

tekknik wrote: post #686
closeparen wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congestion pricing does not interfere with drivers going places other than the city center. They can also still drive to the city center if they value it enough. Deterring people from owning cars altogether, or restricting the spaces and routes drivers can use (in the way cyclists and pedestrians are currently restricted, in this "free" country) would be far more aggressive moves.

That’s the next step isn’t it? With EVs being near useless outside of city centers and city centers are beginning to charge congestion fees then it’s quite obvious what’s coming next.

EVs are near useless in city centers because hardly anybody can install home charging, plus many households have only 1 car so they hamstring themselves for road trips. If you can install a charger on your property and also have ICE vehicles in your household, EVs are great. Not too many suburbanites / exurbanites doing >250 miles in day.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#689

Post by closeparen »

tekknik wrote: post #687
bjourne wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think it is stranger than publicly funded museums charging entrance fees.

That’s a bit different, but still a head scratcher. You can never go to a museum and still be capable of going to work. You need a car for work most of the time.

You absolutely do not need a car to go to work in Manhattan, outside of very particular situations.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#690

Post by Cogito »

tekknik wrote: post #687
bjourne wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think it is stranger than publicly funded museums charging entrance fees.

That’s a bit different, but still a head scratcher. You can never go to a museum and still be capable of going to work. You need a car for work most of the time.

> You need a car for work most of the time.

This is an interesting perspective.

Here in Sydney Australia most households will have a car or two, but most of the people I've ever worked with do not drive to or for work. Another large chunk of people will drive to get to a train station or bus stop, and then get public transport the rest of the way.

There are a lot of people who do drive for work, especially as you get to the edges of the city sprawl, but even then there are often viable public transport options. Those people tend to not work in the city centre or business parks I've worked in.

With working from home even less people are driving due to work.

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