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Why I Left Rust

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Re: Why I Left Rust

#681

Post by More-nitors »

User23 wrote: post #629
lyu07282 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought "rust culture" came out of this sort of super SJW/woke culture of mozilla? Nothing against that sort of mindset in theory, but it sometimes leads to a certain irrational hypersensitive intolerant mob behavior and authoritarian/anti democratic tendencies. There was also the recent easily preventable drama [1] around the trademark guidelines some people left rust over. I don't really find any of this drama co…

Once you understand that "woke" is basically a kind of white internecine competition then it stops being surprising that the "woke" movement doesn't really care about non-white persons except as pieces in that game. These events are of course entirely consistent with that interpretation, and so far I've never seen it falsified.

this whole "woke" mentality is going out of hand too fast...

I mean, someone bullying some veterans/old men because they're "woke and feminist" isn't going to earn any sympathy from me.

nowadays... "woke" just means "I'm better than you (so I can/will do things that are otherwise unacceptable to you)"

...I think we chose the wrong word. Rather than "woke", it should have been "NO BULLYING" -- which includes all things the real "woke" people tried to do, and forbids all things the wrong "woke" people are trying to do

Re: Why I Left Rust

#682

Post by patrick451 »

indy wrote: post #88
junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…

Yeah, this language is just such hyperbole. Cruelty is pulling someones finger nails out with vice grips. What Rust did is rude, not cruel.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#683

Post by patrick451 »

pphysch wrote: post #618
xyzzyz wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust is winning market from C and C++ precisely because of strong technical leadership and direction. It couldn’t have made much progress by taking similar hands off approach as C, because C is already more than good enough C.

> Rust is winning market from C and C++ precisely because of strong technical leadership and direction. Hmm, not sure about that one. Rust has an enormous hype component to it, more than any other language I'm aware of. It may have strong technical leadership, but saying it's gaining market share "precisely" because of it is precisely misleading.

The hype around Julia definitely gives Rust a run for it's money.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#684

Post by Animats »

junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

> They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually.

Maybe that really is the problem. Too much reflection leads to clever, but hard to debug hacks. Look what happened with C++ templates and, further back, LISP macros. That way lies code that's unusually hard to read and maintain. Rust probably shouldn't go that way.

Do you want to have a keynote address on an idea of that type? It's more of a subject for a proposal talk.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#685

Post by bobsmooth »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #663

The irony of people in this thread bemoaning humanity, how we can't all just get along, while simultaneously blasting "woke" politics is palpable

"Woke" is not caring about people. "Woke" is tricking others into thinking you care about people.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#687

Post by pphysch »

patrick451 wrote: post #683
pphysch wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rust is winning market from C and C++ precisely because of strong technical leadership and direction. Hmm, not sure about that one. Rust has an enormous hype component to it, more than any other language I'm aware of. It may have strong technical leadership, but saying it's gaining market share "precisely" because of it is precisely misleading.

The hype around Julia definitely gives Rust a run for it's money.

"in Julia" yields 25 pages of results on HN, while "in Rust" has >100 pages alongside other popular langs.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#688

Post by [deleted] »

foldr wrote: post #534
lamp987 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fully 25% of Gen Z identify as LGBTQ. What does typing on a computer keyboard have to do with where you put your genitals? No one cares and most importantly, no one should care. Keep your sexual and romantic life to yourself in a programming community. >There are going to be struggles and clashes as members of different classes assert their grievances and call each other out. Thats a bad thing that must be nipped in…

>Keep your sexual and romantic life to yourself in a programming community. It's normal for people to mention their romantic partners in casual conversation. Straight people do this all the time . So it's really really hard to interpret this request as anything other than a request for LGBTQ people specifically to hide the fact that they're LGBTQ from their coworkers. Examples of straight people doing this: > I have…

[deleted]

Re: Why I Left Rust

#689

Post by rubyn00bie »

rgbgraph wrote: post #458
di4na wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Fair point, and one I needed to reflect on. I think in my past, whenever I've been in a leadership position over a group of people, we've all been there to achieve some goal. We were all cooperating to reach the same end -- and those with a different opinion of that "end" were excluded. I have also been on the opposite side of this: I've been a member of groups whose goals I did not agree with. And no amount of civil…

> I have also been on the opposite side of this: I've been a member of groups whose goals I did not agree with. And no amount of civility or communication would bridge that chasm; therefore my opinions and thoughts were excluded (and I voluntarily left).

What if you couldn’t leave? Perhaps the cost of leaving is too high, or you’re required to for a job. Membership in many groups isn’t even a direct action, it’s a by product of some other action. Take functional programming, I love it, but holy fuck I should have known as soon as I saw the word “pure” there’d be fucking Nazis, xenophobes, and bigots.

> Do not insert yourself into a group of people that you know you will not get along with. There is no right or wrong, but there is conflict and no conflict.

Take my functional programming example: I have caused and will cause conflict. Because sometimes “not being an asshole” is actually being an asshole. Life’s full of color like that, you know?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#690

Post by commandlinefan »

junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

> Rust members were "uncomfortable" with this purely technical viewpoint

FTA:

> It was JeanHeyd who called Rust out for having no Black representation

The implication here is that this person was uninvited for pushing a SJW agenda that the author agrees with but that rust’s “shadowy” leadership doesn’t.

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