I hate how many of these things aren't limits of the technology but rather the result of cost optimization and general apathy towards the customer. We know how to mass-produce quality LEDs to the point entire TVs are made of the things. We know how to mass-produce rectifiers pretty much ever since diodes existed. We know how to cool mass-produced objects in compact spaces. But because we apparently can't have nice th…
> the result of cost optimization and general apathy towards the customer
aka capitalism? People prioritize price over quality, but you can't make something better the cheaper it gets. So in an open and "fair" competitive market, all goods and services get shittier over time. It's a race to the bottom.
LED lights are unfortunately a big marketing scam. Remember when they promised that the will last up to 20 years? Well, when I renovated my house 5 years ago I installed LED lights over my kitchen island - they were so bright that you couldn't look directly at them and it was too hard to see somebody on the other side of the island.. This is no longer true - they are visibly dimmer. In a few more years they will prob…
I think LED lights will lose some of their brightness in the short term, but maintain a useful plateau much longer. At least, that's how LED projectors work, vs lamp projectors, which steadily decline until they're unusable. However, I would always buy standard socket LEDs unless you're really committed to that lighting style.
Try explaining to your wife that this ugly lamp that uses a regular bulb will be better for us in a long term :)
California's JA8 certification requires LED bulbs to meet specific criteria related to efficiency, lifespan, and light quality. - Efficiency >= 45 lumens per watt - CRI >= 90 - R9 Color Rendering value >= 50 - Rated life >= 15000 hours - Minimum dimming level - Flicker Theoretically if a bulb is listed as JA8 compliant (and the certification isn't fake) you know it at least meets these thresholds.
> CRI >= 90 This one was a little tricky for me when I was buying bulbs last year. I prefer warm-colored bulbs, and I was kind of confused why Amazon kept on saying it was refusing to ship bulbs to me. It took me a while before I realized it was because I'm in CA and the CRI was too low, and Amazon didn't have a way to just filter by CRI. Eventually my wife just ended up finding some warm-ish LED bulbs at a local sto…
It's crazy to me that in 2023, Amazon still refuses to offer meaningful product filtering. The miscategorization of items has been written about many times, and the best explanation for why they're not fixing it is basically "people like digging through piles of trash to find the good stuff". It's an infuriating experience and these days I typically use Google to search Amazon because their basic search will many times fail to show the product when I search for the exact product name or model designation, even when they do in fact carry it. On Google it'll be the first result. Google obviously can't filter Amazon products by category, let alone other parameters, but it's just so frustrating vs using other sites like McMaster-Carr, DigiKey, etc.
The big problem for me is, as a consumer, how do I know that brand X is producing quality bulbs that'll last a long time? I'm very happy to pay more for that. How does one sift through marketing to get to actual quality? And then how do I know that they stick with the high quality approach? What happens when a brand decides to rest on the laurels of their brand name and start slipping in lower quality parts?
> as a consumer, how do I know that brand X is producing quality bulbs that'll last a long time? Like any informed consumer you must read every retail-based HN comment thread ;-]
Philips is generally a safe bet, and G.E. + Osram are as well. The generic crap at Home Depot and Amazon and Walmart that costs 1/4 as much will probably perform awful, but could be a hidden gem. Some dead giveaways are total lack of heatsinks and low price, but higher price does not necessarily equal good quality.
I spent probably $150-$200 for 7 packages of "high CRI" "long lasting" phillips brand LED bulbs last year, for a total of 28 bulbs. 6 of them have failed in less than 9 months, either flickering so badly it could cause an epileptic seizure or just straight up dying on me. It's maddening.
Best case there is to never buy again, name and shame the specific model places like this discussion, and use the warranty! PITA I know.
If the warranty expires, buy the same ones from $BIG_BOX_STORE and return the broken ones. The companies send them back to the mfgs for credit. They'll get the hint eventually.
California's JA8 certification requires LED bulbs to meet specific criteria related to efficiency, lifespan, and light quality. - Efficiency >= 45 lumens per watt - CRI >= 90 - R9 Color Rendering value >= 50 - Rated life >= 15000 hours - Minimum dimming level - Flicker Theoretically if a bulb is listed as JA8 compliant (and the certification isn't fake) you know it at least meets these thresholds.
> - Rated life >= 15000 hours And what do you do when the lightbulb burns out after only 3 years? The product has long since changed SKU, the manufacturer gets to claim they fixed any deficiencies (and it'll take years to find out if they are telling the truth), and you long since lost any proof of purchase.
Yeah there's not much you could personally do, other than maybe report it to the California Energy Commission. Bulbs need to be lab tested and the results submitted to the CEC, but I'm not sure how the lifespan testing is actually done, how accurate it is, or how easily it could be manipulated.
It’s not MBAs place to set public policy though is it? If it’s the MBA’s fault at all it’s because they’re doing their job which is optimising the product to the market. If the markets not optimising the right things then that’s a failure in the market. Maybe the market is being manipulated somehow has it was for the old incandescent bulbs - but that’s not necessarily the fault of the management tier … some economise…
The problem is that people have a limited amount of caring and markets are really good at taking advantage of consumer ignorance. If you care about color rendering but don't know what color rendering is, you can't shop for it (and if you do know what it is you can't shop for it if it's not on the spec sheet).
Yeah, I'm back to wanting a curated shopping experience. I don't want the cheapest thing. I don't want multiple options- thats worse than nothing. I don't want to worry about counterfeits or knockoffs. I don't want to do research, consult the relevant /r and then look through comment history to see who is paid to say what. I want a store to have an opinion and stock high quality stuff. I would happily pay a premium to offload decision making.
No, the lightbulbs at home depot are inexpensive and they work fine. On the other hand, if you care about CRI, then you can also google for high-quality bulbs with a good CRI. I don't really see a problem here?
The problem is I used to be able to spend a couple dollars on lightbulbs that consistently looked great and didn’t require a ton of research or money. I’ve bought hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of high-end LED lightbulbs since moving into my new place last year, and the lighting here still looks like crap. Even with budget it’s hard to get something that looks good. Finding something that dims without flicker…
Check out WAC lighting. You'll pay for the quality, but it's there. Work with a local lighting store to guarantee results. There are other high-end brands too, but WAC are very popular and what many high-end hotels and restaurants use.
I saw a linked article on that site that gives their LED bulb recommendations. Brightness, CRI, color temp, and value are all considered for various applications.