Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#681

Post by dghlsakjg » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 6:29 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #213

hgomersall wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I've heard people make that argument, what they actually mean is "The huge house I want to live in I can afford if I spend an hour a day in the car, oh and people that live in the cities should not make it harder for me to pursue such a path by restricting car usage. Externalities be damned, won't someone think of my being unable to afford a 5 bedroom house with a big garden in the city".

It is both the desire to not live in an apartment, but rather have a detached single family house with a garage and backyard, and also a desire to live away from people below your socioeconomic level and near people at or above your socioeconomic level (referred to as “good schools”). If Americans were okay with living in Tokyo sized abodes, then there would be sufficient density for sufficient housing and job opport…

Tokyo style abodes are illegal in a huge part of many urban areas.

Given the choice between a some of the shitty living situations I dealt with while living in the US, and an affordable, compact efficient apartment. I'll take the latter

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#682

Post by b3nji » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 6:33 PM UTC

Wondering if part if this is due to the sky high inflated prices of vehicles nowadays?

Back in the day, my first car was £700, with £400 insurance. It's no where near that now, and this is only 19 years ago.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#683

Post by shortcake27 » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

tropicalbeach wrote: post #470

usrusr wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked, impossible to do spontaneous things like walk a few stops, ride with an acquaintance or something like that that would eventually take me home, but not return to some previous stage. With a car…

You still have that freedom to walk anywhere after parking you know. I have done this 100’s of times. Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car. Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it. Driving is much better unless you live in a large city like NY or LA. My own climate control, radio for music and podcasts, plus driving is therapeutic. I…

> Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it.

I think you may have forgotten that countries other than the US exist. Public transport in most European cities is absolutely phenomenal. And people like it because it’s cheaper and more convenient (when done right).

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#684

Post by JohnFen » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

I'm a graybeard, but I have never been in love with cars. I truly wish I didn't have to own one.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#685

Post by JohnFen » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 6:44 PM UTC

tropicalbeach wrote: post #470

usrusr wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked, impossible to do spontaneous things like walk a few stops, ride with an acquaintance or something like that that would eventually take me home, but not return to some previous stage. With a car…

You still have that freedom to walk anywhere after parking you know. I have done this 100’s of times. Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car. Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it. Driving is much better unless you live in a large city like NY or LA. My own climate control, radio for music and podcasts, plus driving is therapeutic. I…

> Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it.

Public transport sucks in the US, but that's just because the US has a weird hostility towards it, so doesn't properly invest in it. There's nothing about it that makes it have to suck.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#686

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

MengerSponge wrote: post #675

bathtub365 wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s quite expensive to buy and maintain a car

Yes, and public roads should be an additional cost. I'm not interested in banning cars, but I am interested in charging appropriately for sprawl and air pollution.

[deleted]

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#687

Post by taylodl » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 6:49 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #669

taylodl wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorcycling is also significantly cheaper than is owning a car. The average used car price in the US buys a top-of-the-line, brand-new motorcycle. Used (and even new) motorcycles can be had for significantly cheaper. The insurance and fuel costs are significantly less as well. A motorcyclist will have half the cost or even much less than that of a car owner. I know people always respond that motorcycling is more dan…

I would probably still use a car for many things, but am somewhat open to the idea of a motorcycle, but I HATE the noise. An electric seems like it would resolve that concern, no?

Electric motorcycles are very quiet, so yes, electric motorcycles resolve that concern too. They're also twist-and-go - there's no clutch. Some people (like me) would miss that, but there are many others who would love not having to worry about it.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#688

Post by kspacewalk2 » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 7:12 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #431

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they want their children to learn to drive?

Because, per my other comment, whether or not they want to/need to own a car, being able to drive one is a pretty essential life skill. If nothing else, if you can't/won't drive, you'll be cut off from a lot of employment opportunities.

No, it absolutely is not an essential life skill. They will learn it if it becomes advantageous for them to learn it. I understand offering, I don't understand insisting if they say they don't want to.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#689

Post by micromacrofoot » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 7:12 PM UTC

BizarreByte wrote: post #517

revscat wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now add the cost of gas/petrol. For the average American that’s $3000/year. > more reliable So what? They are still a cost that is forced upon us. I don’t want a car. Yet I have to have one whether I like it or not.

You can move somewhere you don't require a car. If you're posting on HN that is likely well within your ability. Gas does cost a decent amount, but it's also something you can control. Combine trips, drive less, and drive more tamely. In my opinion the freedom and convenience of a car is worth the cost of fuel.

> You can move somewhere you don't require a car.

There are very few cities where you can get around without a car. Even fewer of those are affordable.

This is more problematic as people age. Should elderly drivers retake driving tests? Many argue yes, but no one provides a solution as to what to do when you take their license away. In most cities you'd be screwed.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#690

Post by toshredsyousay » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 7:12 PM UTC

HardlyCurious wrote: post #574

dublinben wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With safe, separated infrastructure, a commute of the same duration via bicycling or walking would be even better for your physical and mental health. We all live in a prison of car supremacy, whether we realize it or not.

I lived very close to my work for a period and tried bike commuting. I don't disagree with the benefits of doing it, but it's not very realistic for most people in most places. I was having a hard time NOT getting sweaty on my ride into work because humidity is the highest in the morning. And when I wasnt sweating I was getting rained on, or my hands were freezing, or I got chain grease on my pants.

If you got an electric bike, that could help with the sweat. The breeze with the extra speed and the reduction in effort really reduce the amount of sweat dramatically. Or just bring a change of clothes and maybe a towel if that is tolerable. For the rain, a bike poncho works pretty well, especially if you pair it with rubber boots (maybe have a change of shoes ready). For the cold, gloves or bar mitts work pretty well. For the chain grease, you can get a full chain guard to house the entire chain if you want, or just tuck your pants into long socks, or get a pant clip. Given how much maintenance people often have to do on cars, a little care to have the right gear for biking is often easily well worth the effort and cost.