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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#681

Post by wyclif »

lovemenot wrote: post #445
wyclif wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to explain the cause. You can't really account for it by a simple tipping/no tipping divide. In other countries that don't do tipping, you'll end up wishing they did because the service is so abysmal. You can't get decent service or expect a good waiter or waitress, because nobody is motivated to do the job well.

You must have not been to Japan.

I've been to Japan many times. Tokyo, Kyoto, Nagoya. Japanese culture is exceptional in many ways—you can't pretend that their culture is normative when applied to the west. My point still stands. You can't pay service staff minimum wage or slave wages and expect good service. This is why the tipping system developed.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#682

Post by jandrewrogers »

pseudo0 wrote: post #205
Insanity wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European living in Canada, the tipping culture took some time to get used to. It's such a stupid/bad system.

Tipping in Canada is extra absurd. The minimum wage for servers and bartenders is the same as for regular workers (eg. $15.50 per hour in Ontario). But thanks to cultural osmosis from the US, 15-25% tips are also expected on top of that.

Where I live in the US, mandatory minimum wage is $18.69/hr. Tips are on top of that. It has less to do with a living wage and more to do with the fact that the employees make less money with a mandatory 20% service charge than they do via tips.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#683

Post by FrontierPsych »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #647
4gotunameagain wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

Context matters. The dynamics of the business are fundamentally different because many employees prefer tips to the alternative, and they have have many options where to work. Employees have a lot of leverage due to a chronic labor shortage. This dynamic has played out time and again in Seattle, where business owners tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge but ultimately had to rel…

I don't like the proliferation of tipping everywhere.

But I know many sit-down restaurants have tried to institute a no-tip policy, but both employees and customers hate it. I would hate it. I like giving tips. I wouldn't go to a restaurant where tipping was not allowed.

Plus, the restaurant has to raise their prices up by 20% anyways, because they now have to pay their wait staff more. The customer pays anyways. So it's a stupid thing not to have tipping. You're not going to save any money at all as the customer. It's impossible to save money.

Furthermore, I know waitstaff that make a considerable amount of money from tips. Like, $300-$400 per shift and more. That's about $80,000 to $105,000 per year. So the food prices are going to have to go up substantially to cover what that person made with tips. The reason that many wait staff make so much is that they have "regulars" who tip them well because they develop a relationship and a repore that goes beyond just simple waiting on a random customer.

People say they want the price that's on the menu, but come on - you know there's going to be a tip, if the menu says it is $20, then it is $23, you can do this in your head or on your mobile phone. You know exactly what the price will be unless you failed 2nd grade math. Why on earth would anyone care if the price said $20 or $23 on the menu, if in either case you pay $23? It's ridiculous in the extreme. Unless someone is an extreme pedantic martinet.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#684

Post by tsimionescu »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #524
dang wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ).

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

There are other tipping cultures outside the USA, you know? Tipping is very common in the Balkans and other countries that were influenced by Ottoman culture, for example. While it is not expected, many coffee shops all around Europe also have tipping jars.

It's really not common in much of Europe at least for people to actually discourage tipping (though they may seek to refuse what they perceive as exorbitant tips).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#685

Post by jacktribe »

lynx23 wrote: post #655
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

I am blind. Would I be able to use your iPad setup to order something in your shop, or is the "lets make everything fancy" setup maybe exclusionary?

We have 2 recurring customers that are vision impaired (there’s an apartment building for people with disabilities nearby). We help place their orders, as we would with any customer that needs help using the iPads for other reasons.

Vision impaired people require the same help reading the menu at any other coffee shop, so it’s not any different. In fact it might make it easier on them because they don’t feel like they’re holding up the line. If one of us guides them through the menu on one iPad, other customers can still use the other iPads to order.

On a related note, I did notice that our visually impaired customers have a phone app that I believe scans and reads the text from the screen out to them. Perhaps we should have our own text to speech option in some future version.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#686

Post by ryzvonusef »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #524
dang wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ).

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

But it has iPads! ;p

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#687

Post by jxramos »

kjellsbells wrote: post #510
harrisi wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to say, please include some technical information if possible. I've spent time with and looked into developing for Clover and set up other POS systems. I've also tutored people pursuing their CS degree while bartending that want to make their own system. I'm very interested in this space since it seems impenetrable. Small businesses can't take too many risks and trying to sell a tailor-made POS seems impo…

As a consumer of both Square and Clover, I wonder if I am alone in finding the latter ridiculously clunky. I want to pay quickly, get a receipt texted or emailed or printed and move on. After I enter my details (eg phone number) once, I should not need to do it again at another merchant. Square gets this. Clover seems not to, and is forever trying to get me to install its dumpy little app to harvest my data in exchan…

yah square is good, clover not so smooth. Sometimes I wonder if the clover payment systems are even online at times or if they just batch a bunch of orders in infrequent intervals. Not sure really.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#688

Post by nmeagent »

midasuni wrote: post #663
dr_dshiv wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been living in the Netherlands, it now feels so patronizing to tip. Like, “I am rich person. I will give you some money, service person. Now smile and appreciate my lordship.”—how it feels to tip.

I was in a taxi many years ago in Beijing. Meter said something like 16, I gave 20 and left. Driver chased me into the lobby to give me the change.

I was in a KTV place in Shanghai several years ago and decided to tip the guy who was doing an excellent job at keeping our little room very well stocked with ice cold beer. I think I gave the guy like 100 RMB. A little later I had to explain to his manager what the money was for...

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#689

Post by tlamponi »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #340
Insanity wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European living in Canada, the tipping culture took some time to get used to. It's such a stupid/bad system.

In southern Europe, automatic 10% tips are often included. But the server will whisper into your ear that he doesn't see any of those 10%, owner takes it all for herself.

Where exactly? As Italian, I never saw this.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#690

Post by adenozine »

frameset wrote: post #677
adenozine wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Would the Americans With Disabilities act apply here?

The ADA is mostly environmental issues. By that I mean if your business has proper ramps, braille on signage for ingress/egress/restrooms/hard copy menus.

It doesn’t mandate that a business must prioritize disabled customers or even that every person with a disability be able to use the service. Again, car companies are the canonical excepted business, but the ADA cannot force you to serve a customer that your business is not right for.

I’m not necessarily advocating for either side, I just don’t like the idea of an automated process being disrupted when there’s other places someone with a disability can go for the same service. Doing business is mutual.

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