I am done. I give up • Hacker News Board

Re: I am done. I give up

#681

Post by epolanski » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:45 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #71

vineyardmike wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A big fact of the entrepreneur world is that it is hugely based on luck. And for anything with bigger ambitions than a lifestyle business, don’t forget connections. Most founders are still men from Ivies or Stanford. Just look at the “PayPal mafia” to see how inbred tech investing can be. Not that most entrepreneurs need or should expect VC funding, but this is HN, run by a VC. You can totally run a business and be…

Personally, I have a problem with the term lifestyle business. Without plenty of VC money, building and running a business is hard . VC backed up start-ups fit the "lifestyle" business definition a lot better, IMHO. One can play CxO, or chief engineer or whatever fancy title one wants to hold without putting the effort and years in, without actually worrying about those nasty things like profitability, cash flow or a…

> wihout plenty of VC money, building and running a business is hard

But..isn't that how it always worked?

Re: I am done. I give up

#682

Post by l5870uoo9y » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #200

kubb wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the privileges people don't often think about is being able to afford to fail. If you don't risk destitution after your startup fails, you can try and fail many times, learn and try again. It's like continuously rolling two dice, and you only need to get double sixes once, and after that it's private jets until you die. One of the many reasons the rich get richer and the poor, well you know how it goes.

This is one of the underappreciated benefits of the Nordic-style welfare state: everybody can afford to fail. Unfortunately it's rarely discussed in society as such. The political parties that built these welfare states have traditionally been associated with worker unions, and entrepreneurship isn't high on their agenda. The Nordic right-wing parties got ideologically married to Thatcher-style neoliberalism and pref…

> This is one of the underappreciated benefits of the Nordic-style welfare state: everybody can afford to fail.

That is a false romantization. The reality is if you live in Copenhagen you need a full time job to to pay for expensive rent, food, and of course tax. That is not true in Berlin where rent, food, and taxes are cheaper. On average the price level in Berlin is half of that of Copenhagen.

Re: I am done. I give up

#683

Post by starkd » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

neon_electro wrote: post #546

kgantchev wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, the US still ranks #1 in the world in Entrepreneurship and Switzerland is #2. Source: https://thegedi.org/global-entrepreneurship-and-development-... I think the reason why welfare is irrelevant here is because the people going into entrepreneurship tend to be skilled enough to find a good-paying job even if their startup fails. Suppose that you're a good product manager or a good developer that's goin…

Except in years like 2022 when it seems harder than ever to get a job, even with a solid 10 year working history. I'm convinced it's a more competitive market than ever, and that means more rejections. I'm being sort of picky, focused on quality over quantity of opportunities, but it doesn't mean your statement is true.

And you have the Federal Reserve right now with that as their stated objective to try to keep a lid on inflation. Not saying this is the right more or not, but that's the unfortunate position we are now in.

Re: I am done. I give up

#684

Post by blix » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #414

joshwolff wrote: post #279

Hate to say it, but you sound like you're victimizing yourself. You're not a victim. And victimhood mentality likely played a large role in your failure. Try to change your mindset and try again when you feel you're ready.

I don't thinks this reply is helpful. Its basically saying "its your fault you failed, moreover you are going to fail again because of your attitude" turning this question around to you: have you ever managed to "change your mindset"? assuming you have changed your mindset, did it materially change your circumstances? Because if you're still in a hole, "being mindful" isn't going to affect that.

> have you ever managed to "change your mindset"? did it materially change your circumstances?

Not GP, but yes and yes. Personal growth is indeed possible!

Re: I am done. I give up

#685

Post by dinkumthinkum » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

ryanp88 wrote: post #605

My advice, pivot to crypto. If you build anything, literally "anything" of actual substance, you can raise 7 figures easily in the next bull market. I've seen absolute dogsh*t nft projects and projects with barely working landing pages and no users raise millions. If you build an actual working product, then the incentives and grants on the layer 2 chains like Optimism and Arbitrum are there for the taking

It sounds like sound advice to do a crypto pump and dump and get in early for the next rug pull. But I think you have to stress that to do this in a sound way you need to have a team of lawyers and a way to insulate yourself from prosecution, if only an exit strategy to a non-extraditing country. Yeah, this is a good plan.

Re: I am done. I give up

#686

Post by sanderjd » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:48 PM UTC

jamiequint wrote: post #639

opyate wrote: post #320

Succeeding in the startup world reminds me of the funfair analogy: The rich kid will have a go at throwing the dart at the balloon, and miss. But, because they're a rich kid, they just take out their wallet (or parents' wallet), get more stubs, and try again (and again) until they hit the balloon. The middle class kid will have a go at throwing the dart at the balloon, and also miss. Then they will walk away, saying…

This seems objectively false given that the majority of extremely successful startups are founded by first or second generation immigrants, who are often not well off. https://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022-BILLION-DOL...

It's always hard to figure out what exactly to look at...

I find both things plausible, both that the most successful startups are not started by the "rich kids" and that the "rich kids" start most successful startups.

The paper you linked is talking only about the first thing, by limiting its analysis to startups that surpass a $1B valuation. But you could choose some much more modest definition of "successful startup", like "all startups that reach series C or have an exit that returns at least 1.5x", and see totally different results.

Re: I am done. I give up

#687

Post by majani » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #77

saalweachter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an engineer at a successful startup. We grew, we went bankrupt, we laid off most the company, the founders kicked in enough to keep us going and we restructured to give the remaining people larger shares. We became profitable and finally sold to another company. My payday was about $70k, which was a nice bonus, I was happy to get it. I moved on to big tech. The company withered away, the company that bought it…

That sucks. I know quite a few stories like that. I'm more active as an investor these days than as an entrepreneur, the projects I still run are more for fun than for income (or even potential income) and I can't tell you how happy I am that that pressure has abated somewhat. It's annoying that even the successes tend to screw over the employees and more often than not the founders as well. Typical dilution by the t…

Unfortunately investors are now all over B2B startups because they're now keenly aware of just how stacked the odds are against you in consumer products. Even YC nowadays calls consumer facing ideas "tar pits". It's also way easier for investors to pump up B2B valuations through cross pollination between portfolio companies

Re: I am done. I give up

#688

Post by pclmulqdq » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

asah wrote: post #432

jacquesm wrote: post #24

It's not defeat, it is the expected outcome. Out of 20 or so of my projects two have been break-out successes and the rest (commercially) complete failures, and I'm very lucky to have two out of those 20, with very small variations in timing it would have been a big fat zero. So don't beat yourself up about it, some people win the lottery and the majority don't. There is absolutely no recipe that will work every time…

I'm not sure defeat needs to be "expected" anymore... I have friends with a string of successes under their belts. My own track record is ~half the companies I advise get from garage to series A, and I've had three IPOs and numerous acquisitions. My rules of thumb: - do something with big impact. "Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will not themselves be realized." - Daniel Burn…

A few of my friends have done startups, and I have noticed something really important about the "why me" question: it seems to be THE determiner of how much you can actually capture from starting up a company. The questions of product/market fit and timing determine whether a company in the space ought to exist. The "why me" question tells you how much your startup can capture independent of the money and work of other people, and how much of that reward you will get.

Since then, I started up a company that I think I am uniquely qualified to run, but we'll see if we get there.

Re: I am done. I give up

#689

Post by sanderjd » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:51 PM UTC

Archipelagia wrote: post #323

This might sound a bit assholish, but I'm writing this to hopefully help others spot a crucial mistake: Did you have anyone on your team with actual skill in sales or marketing? Because from your post it seems you tried the same channels that everyone else does (writing blog, engaging on Twitter, setting up ProductHunt launch) without any specific strategy for how to succeed. And this stuff is hard! There's a reason…

This is the realization that turned me off of very early stage entrepreneurship. That stuff is so boring, and also pretty much the only thing that matters in the very early stage of a startup.

Re: I am done. I give up

#690

Post by blagie » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

miraculixx wrote: post #518

blagie wrote: post #40

Having done several options -- entrepreneurship, job, internal entrepreneurship, and consulting, my advice: - Entrepreneurship isn't a lifestyle. Stay in a job unless you have a good idea and are ready to execute. - Try your idea internally. Starting a new product in a company is easier than outside. It doesn't have a $1B upside, but it has enough upside, in all respects (not just financial -- learning, credibility,…

Well yes and no. Innovating as an employee sucks because somebody else gets all the benefits.

Well yes and no. Most of the value created goes back to the shareholders, but it's just about the fastest and easiest way to move into management (or upper management). If you do internal entrepreneurship, and land leading a division with a VP title, a few things happens:

1) You learn a comprehensive set of skills needed to run a business end-to-end, and you have the benefit of corporate resources to teach you

2) You gain the credibility needed to be a successful entrepreneur

3) Your salary does go up (quite a bit). You're not making $1B, but you are unlikely to be below $300k, and $1M is within reach. That's a fraction of an exit, but it's enough.

4) You build a network which carries over past the current job.

.... and so on.

One of the upsides is that if you can manage internal risks, your odds of success go way up, and if you mess up, the downside is rather small compared to entrepreneurship. Adjusted for risk, expected returns can be greater (to me, $10M is worth only a little bit less than $10B, but $10M is worth a lot more than $100k).

At this point in my career, I'm in an organization that has supported my internal entrepreneurial efforts, and I much prefer that to being out there on my own. I'm also primarily motivated by impact, and I can have much greater impact from where I sit. That's motivating too. If and when the organization changes, I might jump back into independent entrepreneurship, but I'm very happy where I sit.