Earlier quoted context omitted.
Zero tolerance blacklisting of cheaters is probably the best way forward. If neither Niemann nor Carlsen recant, then I predict chess will fall into general disrepute like baseball or billiards. The way for the professional chess community to salvage this situation is with zero tolerance blacklisting of anybody caught cheating, even as a teenager.
> fall into general disrepute like baseball or billiards Could you elaborate, especially on billiards? I had heard a 99PI episode about baseball cheating, but thought it was more isolated incidents and not general disrepute. I enjoy playing pool but know nothing about the professional scene or cheating.
Dear Chess World
681–690 of 1001 posts
Re: Dear Chess World
#682What i think should happen is, Hans should play in tournaments which have much more security, and play against Magnus. If he did cheat it should be really obvious because his performance will suddenly drop. If he didn’t than he will play the same, but now with the added security he won’t have to face unbacked accusations, and there is no excuse for Magnus to refuse to play with Hans like he has been doing now. Even i…
Didn’t he play the remainder of the tournament he beat Magnus in, and proceed to lose six straight under heightened security against worse players?
Given how the internet was reacting to Magnus allegations at the time, I marvel that the kid managed to actually finish the tournament without entirely crumbling. The amount of abuse being thrown at Niemann is nothing short of frightening.
Re: Dear Chess World
#683Earlier quoted context omitted.
A bunch of grandmasters have now talked about the psychological aspect of even just wondering if your opponent could possibly by cheating, and second guessing if a bad looking move by your opponent might actually be a brilliant engine line. It seems that might even be enough for Hans as a 2675 rated player to get an edge against 2800+ player without even actually cheating
Won't they run into the same issue playing strong players? A weird Magnus move might be a blunder or a brilliant line he calculated? Are GMs cheating against NMs because there's said skill gap?
yes but the computer is just so much more powerful, as well as it makes seemingly weird moves more often, as well as it can get itself out of a "bad" line if pushed that way much easier.
Re: Dear Chess World
#684A key fact to understand in thinking about cheating in over the board chess: a strong player can defeat a much stronger opponent with just 1-3 hints per game indicating the strongest move. For example, most chess experts agree that a ~2600 rated player with 2-3 hints at key moments per game would be expected to beat a ~2800 rated player. Many people might assume that a cheater needs guidance every move, thereby requi…
> Also, clever cheating devices have been found in over the board chess competitions The most convincing candidate for such a device I've seen is an Illuminati Thumper Pro hidden in Hans's shoe: https://illuminati-magic.com/products/thumper . If you watch the footage of him getting scanned before his match with Alireza (and, crucially, before Magnus announced he was dropping), there are a couple of subtle things that…
Tangent: any hack magician that uses that device deserves to lose their career.
Re: Dear Chess World
#685Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hot take, but chess is a zombie sport. Software running in a smartphone can play deep games against each other. Chess engines aren't like car engines are to sprinting. They are more akin to text-to-image AIs but as though every single picture they produce is better than what any artist ever could produce. Part of that is because Chess is easily defined (the win conditions are comparatively simple). I'm rambling now a…
Machines can throw objects faster, further, and more accurate than humans, but field sports are still popular. It's interesting not because the object goes far, but because it's being done by a human.
I don’t really think you can compare those though; robots are crap and easily beaten at most physical sports. I mean, as far as I can find, there is not even a bipedal robot that outruns humans (there is the cheetah robot but it has 4 legs ; that’s like having a dog or, you know, cheetah compete against Usain).
But yes, people will continue to play chess, go and spear throwing because it doesn’t matter if something non human is better.
Re: Dear Chess World
#686Imagine you know someone with a history of stealing cars and other valuable objects. He has been caught multiple times. Now you see him with a shiny new car that you’re pretty sure he can’t afford. Did he steal it? Not necessarily — it’s entirely possible that he got a higher-paying legit job and saved up for it, or inherited money from a relative, or got it legally in some other way. He shouldn’t be convicted of a n…
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Re: Dear Chess World
#687Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Also, clever cheating devices have been found in over the board chess competitions The most convincing candidate for such a device I've seen is an Illuminati Thumper Pro hidden in Hans's shoe: https://illuminati-magic.com/products/thumper . If you watch the footage of him getting scanned before his match with Alireza (and, crucially, before Magnus announced he was dropping), there are a couple of subtle things that…
You miss the vitally important point: they weren't needed in the game in question, so we don't even get to the point where fanciful theorising is relevant. Magnus didn't play particularly well and Hans played ok. This was not an example of a superhuman intelligence passing hints to overcome Magnus at his best.
Magnus letter explained that he claimed to notice Niemann's odd behavior during the game. That may have distracted him.
Re: Dear Chess World
#688Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is complete garbage. Real statistical analysis has been done, and has been inconclusive so far. Cherry picking games is ridiculous - at the 2800 level, a GM will only deviate from the engine's top moves 0-3 times. It would be expected that an exceptional performance would remain within top engine moves if someone was able to play at that level.
Hans isn't at the 2800 level, but Magnus is almost 2900, and probably has good reason to be suspicious of someone playing way above their rating in tough matches.
If Hans was to beat Magnus, he would have to play at least at the 2800 level. At which a game with only top moves is quite frequent.
Re: Dear Chess World
#689Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Many people might assume that a cheater needs guidance every move, thereby requiring a potentially more obvious cheating mechanism. That is not the case. IMO, this reasoning potentially implicates every high level player. If it's possible that two hints can account for the difference between 2600 and 2800, and a 19 year old kid under heavy scrutiny can exploit this weakness without being detected, it seems assured…
That doesn't scale down the skill level. At top level of just about any thing the difference between player is decided by few mistakes (by that I define less than optimal action). If average player does 100 mistakes per match fixing 4 of them won't matter. But if great player makes 6, fixing even single one can be deciding
Eh, if you make 96 mistakes to your opponents's hundred, that tips you from even to advantaged.
Re: Dear Chess World
#690Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Hans is known to have cheated Do you have a link to this? Proof that this player has cheated in the past would be the strongest evidence, I believe, he'd do so again.
He admits to cheating in the video linked below. However, that's when he was 12 (and 16) and his friend helped. It is much more different situation then anal beads or electronics in your shoe. Disclaimer: don't know much about chess, let alone professional chess.
And chess.com and Magnus have disputed that Hans has admitted to all of the times he has cheated.