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Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

blog.zulip.com

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Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#681
post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody understands this. Here’s what companies don’t understand: if you promote your product through a loss leader — which is arguably how Slack became popular in the first place — changing your pricing at a later date will piss people off. You’re trying to put the blame on the consumer here which never makes any sense from a business perspective. If your loss-leading pricing strategy was unsustainable from the st…

> The latest Google Apps fiasco is a great example of this, where Google eventually had to backpedal due to the massive backlash. In what way have they back-pedalled? I'm affected by this and hadn't heard anything.

They delayed the cutover multiple times. They gave people 3 months free. They gave people a year at 1/2 off. And finally they gave anyone who declared themselves as personal/family use only back the free option, even after having migrated to a billed option.

(And, if you’re affected by Ukraine vs. Russia, deferred indefinitely.)

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes sense. It was a race to the bottom. Now we're at the bottom. It's like 2001 in a lot of ways. Spesh the terrible economics of websites, or apps, or call them almost whatever they want, platforms, anything. Giveaways bring users. Free beer people show up. Like there's no business here. No excludability. It was a prettification of IRC, which of course nobody pays one fuck of a cent for, and now they want to…

>It was a prettification of IRC, which of course nobody pays one fuck of a cent for It's a lot more than that. Addimg a persistent message history and multi-device identities to IRC is pretty huge, otherwise bouncers would never have existed. And the number of paying customers shows that people are, in fact, very willing to pay for it. Slack just really sucks at b2b marketing, which is why Teams eclipsed them so quic…

Well there's different market segments. Me on one market segment, I'm the guy (nice to meet you) basically the way a sow has a runt, on the off chance she can feed it, that's the same basis companies hire me. And only very fucked companies.

The basic reason is because I got tortured with an amnestic lobotomy. I had a very marketable curriculum until that point, and after that if for instance I was asked where I worked during April 2009, I would ask "are we talking about the Gregorian Calendar, that shit?"

So for me you have to provide amazing shit for me to subscribe to anything. And it can be done. Not often. I can't have 7000 apps draining me $5 a month. That is why I identified a natural limit to the number of web-app subscription-model startups there could be, the first limit was remembering all the credentials to use them, which 1Password and similar surpassed. One user here talked about having 800 web app username-password credentials on his 1Password, obviously doesn't pay any scratch for most of them. Veteran of the freemium model, like I became a veteran of the psych ward in my remarkably successful struggle under torture, including not caving to the torture.

I talk about this at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32620302

So my segment of the market, I'm gone. Neither feature you mentioned seems...wantable. And that goes for most web apps, like I predict their business model and then operate on that basis. So for instance most VPN's are, as a business, honeypots. Like yeah you can steal from the labels who steal music from the artists, that you can do, but for tricky nitty gritty, nah. It's just too obvious, it's just too instantaneous an erection the founder gets thinking of cutting deals with Kuwaiti Intelligence during the commercial of them going on TV saying "We never have and never will cut a deal with Kuwaiti Intelligence."

So with the paying users it's like ice on land, they need the ice on the sea in order to hold them back from falling into the sea. Non-paying users provide a lot of value to Slack, in that for instance you can do a trial release on them to debug your product for the paying users. For example.

"Slack just really sucks at b2b marketing" well compared to Microsoft yes. Slack sucks at marketing compared to Microsoft, for B2B. I buy that. The guy Butterfield (Stuart? Something) was busy getting on magazine covers like it is still the previous millennium, which for businesses loses credibility.

So I went to slack.com and tried finding what they charged, they wanted me to see all their flair first. So I went to the URL which said https://slack.com/features and replaced "features" with "pricing" and there it was, the chart with the numbers they want. So they want $8.00 USD a month for their product, and assumptively propose you buy it for the year at a pro rata price of $6.67 as the default. I looked for their asterisk at the bottom of the page, but it wasn't there. No this was a javascript asterkisk, no relation to asterisks in eg legal document. So $8.00 a month, per user.

So that right there is a turn-off to an informed buyer, which B2B is. There's typically a designated person in the office for this sort of purchase and she herds the company's users through the spam, the spear-fishing, the shitty deals like this one, every everything. Apparently Teams is in fact the better product, and that might be because the terms of service aren't demonic (though I vaguely recall them yes being demonic which is why I couldn't use it, but then from the dodginess in revealing the price I divine Slack's terms are demonic too).

But whatever. In for a penny, in for a pound, sell your soul, no reason to pray. Microsoft already has telemetry on like blood type in the first 18 minutes so it's not an additional leak to work with them.

And that's saying as someone conflicted about the company, I like the way they didn't fuck up github for instance. Didn't nix it. Like they never even bought it. It works better now, in fact, I can tell it has more integrity and reliability. Backend stuff.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#684
post #533
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this like replying to a thread and clicking "Also post to channel" in Slack?

No, discord threads are siloed off into their own world. They're effectively more so temporary channels (and discord itself enforces the temporary nature - they get locked after disuse). Parent poster seems to like it, but for my use case I'd rather slack threads.

> they get locked after disuse

Yikes, here's hoping you mean "after a year" or something, because having to make a fake new thread just to comment on an existing locked thread would make me rage quit

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#685
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s surprising. In what way? I find it to be the most consistent and the most correct out of any chat software I’ve used, including IRC, Slack, Mattermost, and Microsoft Teams. They seem to just get a lot of stuff right. The only thing that took me some time to adjust to was how overwhelming joining a new server can be. So many channels! Everything needs my attention! But after using it for a long time, I think th…

Discord's UI is seemly optimized for dopamine release, just like a game. Some people like this kind of constant distraction, though.

Nope, it's possible to control the notifications to a much better degree than any of the other options allows.

I could see Discord as made for power users where Slack and Teams would be aimed at casuals. But I do think that Discord does a pretty good job at being intuitive.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The latest Google Apps fiasco is a great example of this, where Google eventually had to backpedal due to the massive backlash. In what way have they back-pedalled? I'm affected by this and hadn't heard anything.

They delayed the cutover multiple times. They gave people 3 months free. They gave people a year at 1/2 off. And finally they gave anyone who declared themselves as personal/family use only back the free option, even after having migrated to a billed option. (And, if you’re affected by Ukraine vs. Russia, deferred indefinitely.)

I didn't know about the last option! They didn't exactly notify us about the option...

I have now selected it, thanks!

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#687

I would take this post with a grain of salt given it's written by a direct competitor who has many reasons to have a biased point of view. That they noticed people signing up in troves on their platform is a totally valid point. They do mention that fact, but a big disclaimer is the kind of information you'd like to see at the top of the article.

It's on their corporate blog; I'm totally unfazed by the lack of disclaimer since it's literally running under their banner. Do you have any issues with the article?

I didn't know Zulip or what they did prior to reading this, so I guess it's also contextual. I understand why they would advertize that they didn't change their plan even though Slack did and they are indeed free to post whatever they want on their corporate blog. I would just take it with a grain of salt given the underlying interests.

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users generally don't like surprises. As a user or consumer, it an unpleasant surprise that feels like a bait and switch when the free product you used now requires payment without prior warning. At least smaller apps are upfront about the duration of the free trial, and there are no surprises (or uproar) there.

If those people wouldn’t have purchased the product, does it matter that they’re pissed off?

Who says they wouldn't have purchased the product? I've been hoping that Slack would provide communities like mine better plans or options to support them and access some of the improved features.

But, this move makes it pretty clear they're never going to, so I'm finally going to bite the bullet and set up Matrix.

[Just to add to this, I've had my users asking me why we're on Slack when everybody else is on Discord. (Most of us use Slack at work, so it's convenient in that sense.) I've been interacting with the company since Glitch/Tiny Speck. But, with pushback from users and from the company, at this point I just can't justify Slack for our particular use case.]

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#689
post #481
post #163

People should understand this: A free tier is a loss-leader, intended to support sales of the paid product. If too many “…have been happily using Slack’s free plan for years”, then Slack will have to change the terms. Generally, storage and access to storage cost money. If you aren’t paying for it, it is definitely temporary, whether anyone says it explicitly or not. I don’t just mean in a “nothing lasts forever” way…

Everybody understands this. Here’s what companies don’t understand: if you promote your product through a loss leader — which is arguably how Slack became popular in the first place — changing your pricing at a later date will piss people off. You’re trying to put the blame on the consumer here which never makes any sense from a business perspective. If your loss-leading pricing strategy was unsustainable from the st…

[deleted]

Re: Slack’s free plan change is causing an exodus

#690
post #663
post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Here’s what companies don’t understand: if you promote your product through a loss leader — which is arguably how Slack became popular in the first place — changing your pricing at a later date will piss people off. I'd argue that most companies understand that perfectly well. They have a generous free tier to drive growth. Once that growth is attained and demand starts to level off, it's time to trim the resources…

Yup, and they think pissing people off is worth it (for their expected benefit). And... they're probably right. People have short term memories and other things to worry about.

They are right for now, but will start loosing clients soon. Zulip & Discord provide better plans without major feature set downgrade.

We tested Zulip not too long ago, in short - UI is not so good, but in general still useful: https://nixsanctuary.com/zulip-review-through-slack-glasses/

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