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Apple Unveils M2

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Re: Apple Unveils M2

#681

Post by seabriez »

simonh wrote: post #355
bogwog wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How has that been "proven"? If your argument is that people are still buying Macs despite the lack of customization, well that's ignoring the state of the market. Most consumers only have two choices (Mac or Windows), and oftentimes it comes down to familiarity with one OS over the other, rather than any specific features or merits of the actual product. If Apple released a "customizable" Mac, or one that could be up…

There has been tons of research in this. Of consumer machines capable of being upgraded, only a low single digit percentage of them ever are. Factor in issues with driver support and updates for arbitrary hardware, the weight premium for upgradability, compromises in chassis rigidity and resilience to add removable panels and it’s just hugely wasteful and compromises quality for the vast majority of owners.

Haha, I dont know about these studies but I was just browsing and randomly saw this. Checking in that I definitely upgrade my machines all the time.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#682

Post by seabriez »

astrange wrote: post #593
smoldesu wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment sounds like the exact same hopium I heard about Intel in 2016. I get what you're saying, and there are definitely smaller changes packed in here, but my point is that Apple's performance crown is looking mighty easy to usurp right about now. Hell, they even showed a graph with the i7 1280p beating the M2's single-core performance by ~20% at the WWDC today; they know they're on notice.

M2 isn’t intended to have high performance. It’s intended to have a high perf-power ratio, as they said. Often it gets the performance too, but that’s kind of like a lucky break.

And why do I care about perf-power ratio if my laptop is plugged in? WHY? I can understand if it switched to high perf-power ration when Im not plugged, but why would I need that when Im plugged in? Seems like a made up, just because metric.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#683

Post by CharlesW »

danielscrubs wrote: post #655
anonymouse008 wrote: post #105

It's very interesting to think the processor releases were holding back the Mac for so long. They are on the cusp on turning Macs into annual upgrades - with meaningful performance upgrades tied to the OS, just like they've done for a decade with the A series / iOS releases. This is firing on all cylinders. The organizational structure and performance is a marvel for this.

On the software side things have gone so much worse though. You have the Swift compiler that uses heuristics which makes it unreliable (a compiler that times out!), and even Apples most basic software seems to crash constantly. If you have a budget Intel MacBook the compiling time are horrendous. Just yesterday the Contacts app on macOS crashed for me. I think Rosetta + Swift + SwiftUI might have been a bit much chan…

> …even Apples most basic software seems to crash constantly. Just yesterday the Contacts app on macOS crashed for me.

This is also anecdotal with a sample size of one, but I can't recall experiencing Apple app stability issues in recent Monterey releases on an M1 Air. It may be worth digging into crash logs. https://macreports.com/crash-reports-how-to-use-them-to-trou...

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#684

Post by ezsmi »

seabriez wrote: post #682
astrange wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M2 isn’t intended to have high performance. It’s intended to have a high perf-power ratio, as they said. Often it gets the performance too, but that’s kind of like a lucky break.

And why do I care about perf-power ratio if my laptop is plugged in? WHY? I can understand if it switched to high perf-power ration when Im not plugged, but why would I need that when Im plugged in? Seems like a made up, just because metric.

Because lots of power makes a system hot. And a hot system is a slow system, even if the battery is full.

https://www.novatech.co.uk/blog/cpu-and-thermal-throttling/

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#685

Post by seabriez »

ezsmi wrote: post #684
seabriez wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why do I care about perf-power ratio if my laptop is plugged in? WHY? I can understand if it switched to high perf-power ration when Im not plugged, but why would I need that when Im plugged in? Seems like a made up, just because metric.

Because lots of power makes a system hot. And a hot system is a slow system, even if the battery is full. https://www.novatech.co.uk/blog/cpu-and-thermal-throttling/

Nothing you said here doesn't not apply to M1 which also overheat under high load and gets throttled, and some of them dont even have a fan.

https://medium.com/illumination/how-to-solve-overheating-iss....

A lot of these benchmarks run for several minutes and test the system as it OVERHEATs, simulating real conditions and Intel i12 beats M1/M2. So this doesnt change anything or bring any new information.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#686

Post by ezsmi »

seabriez wrote: post #685
ezsmi wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because lots of power makes a system hot. And a hot system is a slow system, even if the battery is full. https://www.novatech.co.uk/blog/cpu-and-thermal-throttling/

Nothing you said here doesn't not apply to M1 which also overheat under high load and gets throttled, and some of them dont even have a fan. https://medium.com/illumination/how-to-solve-overheating-iss... . A lot of these benchmarks run for several minutes and test the system as it OVERHEATs, simulating real conditions and Intel i12 beats M1/M2. So this doesnt change anything or bring any new information.

This is the first sentence of that article, “MacBook rarely shows overheating issues.”

I can say that’s definitely not the case of the Intel laptop I’m currently using.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#687

Post by gigatexal »

least wrote: post #381
gigatexal wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. As soon as it’s got feature parity I am getting an m1 Mac to run Linux with i3. And no don’t mention magnet it’s not the same.

You could try Yabai [1], but it's a bspwm clone not an i3 clone. Still not as zippy as the TWMs on linux, but a pretty decent experience overall. There's also Amethyst [2] which kind of replicates xmonad. In most ways they're worse than using the linux ones, though at least you retain the full features of Aqua and Quartz, while trying to integrate i3 or other TWMs with a proper DE in linux remains to be a hassle. [1]…

I am familiar with both projects. And both are doing amazing work working around the limitations of MacOS to being some sensibility to the OS’s window manager. But yabai from what I remember requires you to disable SIP or to get it to fully work and on top of that I have cooled on my zealotry for MacOS over the years. I used to be a huge fanboy. But now I am a bit creeped out by all the ways Apple is trying to make it hard to leave the ecosystem. By how interconnected everything is. Also I love and support the brew project but … it’s not as fast or as robust as a proper package manager. (Maybe nix could come into play here.) But ultimately I am most keen on using proper Linux for the container tech, the customizability, the freedom, that containers run without the need for a VM —- that being said I hear arm64 VMs run super well on the M1s and … I dunno maybe I will revisit the Apple side of things. I just wish I could get the amazing Apple hardware and M1 or M2 performance and just run my own OS on it. The asahi folks are helping with that.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#688

Post by etse »

AviationAtom wrote: post #581
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #52

All i want is a laptop with similar build quality, battery life, and Ubuntu.

I find this most interesting. I feel Apple went to Intel chips originally to be able to offer users the best of both worlds: both Windows and OS X. Naturally Bootcamp came along to bring that functionality. Now that Apple is back to a RISC chip, what is stopping them from offering a RISC version of Bootcamp? Windows runs on ARM chips, as do many distributions of Linux, so why not officially offer the ability to run a…

I think Apple was motivated to switch to Intel because of the stagnated development of PowerPC. You may be thinking further back, like in the 90s, regarding Macs that could dual boot into PC

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#689

Post by soperj »

giantrobot wrote: post #606
soperj wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember hearing people complain about their keyboards, not that they couldn't video conference.

With COVID lockdowns a huge population of people suddenly started video conferencing with Zoom/Teams/etc. If pre-COVID you only conferenced occasionally with those apps or used FaceTime or some other conferencing better using hardware encode/decode the keyboard was likely your biggest problem.

might be it, definitely wasn't hearing from people as much post-covid.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#690

Post by ungamedplayer »

edgefield wrote: post #228
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's very interesting to think the processor releases were holding back the Mac for so long. Apple also made a huge leap forward with their cooling designs. Making the laptop thicker and investing in proper cooling design made a huge difference. My M1 laptop is significantly quieter than my old Intel laptop at the same power consumption level. It’s not even close. Apple’s last generation chassis and cooling solutio…

100% agree. The last generation of MacBook pros with intel processors were virtually unusable for zoom calls or any intensive processing power tasks.

Its interesting that Apples "premium line" at the time can't handle zoom, whereas my mid level lenovo ( Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8665U CPU ) has no issues with zoom. Feels like poor design, not architecture issues.
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