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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#681

Post by thepasswordis »

mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

>Patients in COVID have become downright mean.

Maybe, but nurses have also used "because covid" as an excuse to engage in some pretty awful behavior. Fathers have only very recently been allowed in the room during ultrasounds, for instance. NICUs only recently started allowing both parents to visit at the same time.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#682

Post by ethbr0 »

cogman10 wrote: post #479
14 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a Canadian stand point you American nurses are already highly paid. My brother works in the US and was recently thinking of coming back to work closer to where he grew up. The best deal he could get here was $20usd less then what he makes there. So on top of making $20 more then a nurse here he is also making it in USD. He is making huge amounts of cash as a nurse down there. How much more do nurses need?

> How much more do nurses need? What you need to realize is that nursing salaries in the US are NOT uniform. From what I've seen in past discussions about it is they range anywhere from $20/hr -> $100k/year. The $100k/year are usually achieved only in cities and generally only by travel nurses. The majority of nurses, that I've seen, are clocking in at 50->60k yearly salary. Sort of like saying "Oh, that google dev m…

"Nurse" is a pretty broad title when popularly thrown about, given that it spans from LPN to DNP and med-surg/clinic to ICU.

"Sysadmin" seems the most readily comparable title in IT, going from "I push software to Windows PCs" to "I manage supercomputer clusters."

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#684

Post by a2tech »

stdgy wrote: post #607
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

The rules nurses have to deal with around things as asinine as taking PTO are AMAZING. They’re required to put in PTO requests months in advance and the hospital can and will say “Sorry, denied. We don’t have enough people…” As they are intentionally creating skeleton crews of nurses to wring every ounce of profit out of the business. My mom was a nurse, my aunt was a nurse, my sister is a nurse and my best friend’s…

The hospital I work at requires physicians to file their schedules 8 months in advance. The only deviation from that is for emergencies. Unofficially there’s a lot of flex for them, but that’s the official administration line.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#685

Post by Jiro »

wonderwonder wrote: post #526
aiisjustanif wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jfc that is terrible.

Is it though? Should a cop be prosecuted for accidentally killing an innocent civilian in the course of duty during a non violent traffic stop? I would argue that they should be. How many chances should a nurse get to accidentally kill someone? Do they only get prosecuted the second time? Third? If you are responsible for the death of another person due to your own negligence then you should be prosecuted for a crime…

A cop killing an innocent civilian at a nonviolent traffic stop can pretty much happen only because of malice or negligence. We use the word "accident", but it's never really an accident. If a nurse accidentally kills someone, it may really be an accident.

Furthermore, the nurse is in a profession where people die all the time due to reasons beyond the nurse's control, and surviving relatives are not always rational in who they blame. So nurses will be falsely accused much more often than police.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#686

Post by BeetleB »

raydev wrote: post #557
screye wrote: post #550

Not to be mean, but 'leave nursing' and then what ? Nursing is a well paying middle-class job without a lot of transferable skills to other professions. Don't say programming. It isn't the solution to everything. Other low-entry-barrier jobs pay much less and have exploitation problems of their own. For a lot of middle class families, dual income is essential to maintain their lifestyle. So SAHM is not an option. Nur…

> Nursing is a well paying Only in a vaccuum. It pays far worse than other jobs at the same rate given the effort and stress the job entails. > don't they get more leverage on what QOL and wages they can demand ? Sure, but it needs to get far worse. The hospitals are only going to budge once walkouts are organized. But that can't happen without strong unions, most nurses just need to pay the bills which is why they c…

> It pays far worse than other jobs at the same rate given the effort and stress the job entails.

Depends on location. Most professions I know with that much effort and stress get paid a lot less than $100K, which is the median nurse pay in my area. Amazon pays a lot less.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#687

Post by ben0x539 »

BeetleB wrote: post #665
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

> Rather than hiring permanent people or upping salary, Hospitals have instead elected to just use travel nurses and an extreme premium so as to avoid any salary increases. In case people want an idea of what travel nurses made during COVID... https://khn.org/news/highly-paid-traveling-nurses-fill-staff... > In April, she packed her bags for a two-month contract in then-COVID hot spot New Jersey, as part of what she…

How many working hours are in those weeks?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#688

Post by ethbr0 »

freeflight wrote: post #568
Melatonic wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently quite a bit if 90% hate their jobs

Nursing, just like many other social oriented professions, attract a lot of people for the right reasons, like wanting to help other people, yet too often that well-meaning motivation is then exploited to the maximum by overworking and underpaying these people. They will bear a lot of that, because these people care for their patients and leaving a job because of bad circumstances also means leaving their patients be…

It's the game developer of health care.

People get into it because they love it, and then have their love exploited for profit by businesses masquerading as social charities.

Some hospitals and clinics do great philanthropic work. There are also a lot that don't, but have the same cross over their door.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#689

Post by ben0x539 »

bumby wrote: post #652
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

> The fix is one that Hospital admins don't want. Pay your nurses more and hire more As someone who worked in hospitals to help redesign their processes, this one piqued my interest. For every project I worked on (and I mean literally every one), the team lead wanted to jump to the solution that they just need the ability to hire more people. In the rare instances where they were able to convince hospital admins to d…

i think that argument works a lot better in a field where they arent bullying people into working overtime near constantly

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#690

Post by bradchris »

conductr wrote: post #609
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

Yes and No. On an individual basis, nurses are overworked because they choose to be and their employers allow for it. The standard work week is 3 12 hour shifts, which is much less than most professionals work. Like a retail or warehouse worker, they are expected to clock out as soon as possible and leave when the shift ends. Those of us with salary jobs knows how difficult that can be in our arrangements and how muc…

"Hospitals barely make money as it is, I don't see how this is a sustainable solution. Paying more does not create capacity in this industry."

The problem is – and this may be very bizarre in a society as capitalistic as the US – healthcare should not be beholden to making a profit.

Rehabilitating people is clearly "valuable" to the economy in that without people to participate in the economic system, a debt-based economy collapses; I'd argue that healthcare is much more valuable to capitalism than is reflected on a balance sheet of paper costs/revenues/profits, and yet a system such as ours has absolutely no way in its current form to price that in (sure, in an academic defense you could wave hands that "positive externalities" such as these should be priced in to the model, but it's clear with the racket the medical industry has found itself in that will never happen practically).

The main issue profit-seeking conflicts with is that whole rehabilitating/healing/saving people is an intrinsically good thing to do, and that letting people who have full lives to live die or suffer is an intrinsically bad thing to do.

What's not sustainable is that healthcare has to survive within the confines of a system that is many times in complete opposition to it. Other otherwise-capitalist countries have at least tried to insulate their healthcare industry from market forces, meanwhile the US has just wrapped it in another layer of capitalism with its insurance market.

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