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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#681

Post by ed_balls »

mulmen wrote: post #640
twaw wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you are using salami tactics. Salami tactics works in both ways. You say that nobody will went crazy when a tactic nuke will be used against RF army. Right? Can you draw the line, please? When this war between two nuclear states will be nuclear, if even use of tactical nuke is not enough for you?

Ukraine isn't a nuclear state. They destroyed their nukes and joined the non-proliferation treaty in 1994.

Ukraine is a nuclear state[1] that temporarily doesn't have nukes - they gave all to Russia.

[1]Budapest Memorandum was not fulfilled, so Ukraine regain their status of nuclear state.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#682

Post by PoignardAzur »

isomel wrote: post #532
revscat wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This touches on why I think humanity will not survive for much longer. Global warming continues to be a civilization-ending level threat, and yet it continues to be more or less ignored. Vast swathes of the population believe that their egos can determine reality, no matter the actual physical reality they so hubristically ignore. > we’re not capable of I don’t think so, either. This sentiment tends to be met by the…

> Global warming continues to be a civilization-ending level threat, Global warming is a threat that will have tons of negative impact. But is it really "civilization-ending"?

Note that a reactor meltdown isn't "civilization-ending" either. The world carried on fine after two of those.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#683

Post by formerly_proven »

pintxo wrote: post #606
HWR_14 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet speculation is that the power plant will be shut down once taken over. Which at least minimizes the ongoing risk of human error. Heck, shutting down is probably a far simpler process than continuing to run - nuclear power plants are designed to be shut down if necessary.

Given the continuous need for cooling and containment, and within the context of a war, does it really matter if a fission power plant is running or shut down in terms of environmental security?

Russian forces have been destroying substations to kill electricity and this is the largest power station in Ukraine. It is not unreasonable at all to think that shutting it down and making it hard to get back up (to destabilize or shut down the Ukrainian power grid) is part of the Russian attack strategy.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#684

Post by mkmk2 »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #649
pasquinelli wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This whataboutism has to stop. One bad thing doesn't excuse another. Would you suggest that it's OK to use nuclear weapons because the US used two of them in WW2? I hope not. The invasion of Iraq was based on lies and this is terrible. The invasion of Ukraine is based on lies and it is also terrible.

Didn't read it as whataboutism. Was more a call to consider the "ridiculous stream of fantasy being spewed out of leader and media" is rhetoric which is almost always applicable somewhere. The spewing's given some credit elsewhere, just not here because they've been pretty cleanly labelled as the enemy. Also maybe because it's batshit, but the people who are unsure of that will have a harder time having a discussion about it because so many people are jumping to emotional or canned responses.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#685

Post by rightbyte »

formerly_proven wrote: post #683
pintxo wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the continuous need for cooling and containment, and within the context of a war, does it really matter if a fission power plant is running or shut down in terms of environmental security?

Russian forces have been destroying substations to kill electricity and this is the largest power station in Ukraine. It is not unreasonable at all to think that shutting it down and making it hard to get back up (to destabilize or shut down the Ukrainian power grid) is part of the Russian attack strategy.

It seems trivial to cut the big power lines if you want to cut power?

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#686

Post by PartiallyTyped »

symlinkk wrote: post #402
chasd00 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been wondering if that convoy outside of Kyiv is really stopped because serious thought is being given to the idea of a nuclear attack to save a long bloody insurgency. I don’t know if NATO would respond to a nuclear attack on Kyiv. Would NATO attack knowing the destruction of London/Paris/NYC/etc would be almost guaranteed?

No offense but this is pretty far fetched. First of all, if Putin wanted to level Kiev he could do it with conventional bombs and artillery. Nuclear weapons are not needed. But second of all, *why* would he want to flatten Kiev? Why don’t you read his goals in his own words? https://web.archive.org/web/20220224024154/http://en.kremlin... He says he sees Russians and Ukrainians as one people and wants to unify them. N…

That was written under the assumption they'd have occupied Ukraine in 3 days or so, not the embarrassment that is happening now. At this point, Kremlin will put out any false flag and use it to justify levelling Kyiv and his population will suck it up.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#687

Post by formerly_proven »

rightbyte wrote: post #685
formerly_proven wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian forces have been destroying substations to kill electricity and this is the largest power station in Ukraine. It is not unreasonable at all to think that shutting it down and making it hard to get back up (to destabilize or shut down the Ukrainian power grid) is part of the Russian attack strategy.

It seems trivial to cut the big power lines if you want to cut power?

Ukraine is a big country. Meanwhile, this power plant represents 40 % of Ukraine's nuclear power generating capacity, which in turn is responsible for ~50 % of power generation. So this one plant is around 20 % of the total generating capacity in Ukraine.

Since Ukraine is no longer connected to the Ex-Soviet power grid, it is now an isolated grid and has to generate all electricity domestically. That's why the Ukraine is trying to create an interconnection with the EU grid as quickly as possible.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#689

Post by Nemrod67 »

mwattsun wrote: post #154
smrtinsert wrote: post #125

I am absolutely livid and terrified for the state of the world right now.

I was only 4 during the Cuban Missile crisis, but I've talked to people who remember it and this sounds a lot like it.

most people forget that Cuban missiles followed missiles in Turkey, who can say who really started the madness?

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#690

Post by Nemrod67 »

archibaldJ wrote: post #322

I gradually stop seeing this as a war just for the freedom of the Ukrainian people. This is a war for the progress of humanity. A war between the new and old worlds. With more breakthroughs in nuclear fusion energy and policies [1], the gradual adoption of nuclear (as well as EV tech) will soon mark the end of old world. The implication of this is beyond anything anyone can conceive as we do not truly know what becom…

This is just the latest battlefield in the Culture War we are fighting free-for-all.
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