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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#681

Post by trhway »

Daishiman wrote: post #656
trhway wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Vaccines work, they work extremely well. You are literally making it up. If it so then why there have been so many breakthrough infections ? (30-40% of the new infections for delta at the 60-70% vaccination rate and 80% for omicron at 80% vaccination rate, and that is as reported which is given lighter symptoms means severe undercounting) While the vaccines failure to control the infectious spread has been obvious f…

Vaccines cut down the hospitalization and death rate 20 to 60-fold. They reduce transmission by a substantial amount. That means they work. Why are you nitpicking and purposely ignoring the titanic scientific achievement of developing cheap vaccines, deployed by the billions in the span of a year, that literally avoided tens of millions of deaths? It's clear you're not here to make good-faith arguments.

>Vaccines cut down the hospitalization and death rate 20 to 60-fold.

Yes, for very specific groups of people. For the majority though it did practically nothing which makes forced vaccination of that majority immoral and illegal.

>They reduce transmission by a substantial amount.

No. As the numbers and the link I provided show.

>literally avoided tens of millions of deaths?

Forced vaccination of the very low risk majority has nothing to do with it. Even more - if those wasted vaccine doses were instead used to vaccinate high-risk people in poor countries then even more lives would have been saved.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#683

Post by YZF »

Zanneth wrote: post #541
epgui wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the few who don’t comply to public health recommendations/orders are responsible for the greater share of the economic burden of disease, and this burden was totally preventable.

That is not true at all. The greatest burden on the economy was the lockdowns and extreme countermeasures. People choosing not to get vaccinated may have caused unnecessary burden on the healthcare system, but to blame them for the struggling economy is just wrong.

What extreme countermeasures were done in BC? Closing Yoga studios for 4 weeks? Our economy has done pretty well during the pandemic. Is it all fun and games, nope.

As a vaccinated person I flat out blame the people that didn't get vaccinated for making the last year much worse than it'd had to be. If we had better vaccine coverage we wouldn't need the restrictions that we had to put in place. They don't only put burden on the healthcare system (which they do), preventing people that need care from getting it (which they do), but they also mean the rest of us have to do more because they're not willing to do their share. I guess the bright side is that this is a tiny minority around these parts.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#684

Post by oneplane »

ALittleLight wrote: post #662
slibhb wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a word for "blocking infrastructure" as a form of protest: civil disobedience. I'm sympathetic to (some) of the aims of the protesters but I think they've made their point and should go home. Still, this move by Trudeau seems like an overreaction considering there's been little/no violence.

One thing I've never understood about protests of the "you've made your point" variety is what they're supposed to do. I'm thinking of the Women's March and things like that, where there's a scheduled day and people walk around and then they are done. What is that supposed to do? It's less of a protest and more of a parade in my opinion. The trucker protest, on the other hand, I can understand what it is supposed to…

A protest is a sign of disagreement, and a signal for change... not a "We are a small, non-representative but loud group. Now give us what we want."

If the point of a protect is go 'get your way', it's essentially a crappy "Might makes right" play. Might as well not vote, ignore all the rules etc. Society doesn't work if you pick-and-choose at scale.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#685

Post by Tiktaalik »

dblohm7 wrote: post #56
nirav72 wrote: post #33

This is definately going to back fire on him and his administration. There weren't any major incidence of violence or rioting. They got the bridge cleared. He should've left it at that and let it fizzle out.

There have been multiple incidents of protesters using large vehicles to smash through police barricades. What do you call that?

The presence of the vehicles themselves is an act of intimidation. This could be a reason why Ottawa police have been so timid. Not hard at all to drive forward and injure and kill someone. There's video footage from the Vancouver protest that shows a truck attempting this, and the counter protestor attempting to block the truck had to step aside.

This novel use of trucks for protest has been enormously effective and I expect we'll see this replicated all over from now on.

Whereas in the past it took a mass movement of thousand upon thousands to block a bridge, now a few dozen people in trucks can do the same thing.

Trucks enable a protest to be incredibly paralyzing with a fraction of the amount of protestors.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#686

Post by b112 »

gruez wrote: post #438
salawat wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! Now you're starting to get what people have been making such a fuss about in the U.S.! The moment you can unilaterally freeze bank accounts of your own citizens, you're basically putting fundamental restrictions on what they can and cannot do! If citizens can't even fund raise for their own protests, you have a problem. ...Now the fact a bunch of donors are American and not Canadian is... Fascinating... I'…

>...Now the fact a bunch of donors are American and not Canadian is... Fascinating... >I'm not sure what to do about that little chestnut... Sorry Canada. Welcome to politics by free trade I guess??? That'd make sense if they were only freezing the funds that were received from outside the country, but according to the article they're freezing the accounts of "anyone linked with the protests".

While I disagree with the freeze, do note, corporate accounts are to be frozen. The distinction is important.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#687

Post by bregma »

harryf wrote: post #433
jsjsbdkj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended an…

> It has terrorized women, queer people and people of color on the streets. Seriously? This smells like an attempt to paint the truckers as extreme right. Any quality sources for that claim?

The list of protest organizers reads like a who-who of the far right in Canada.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#688

Post by JamisonM »

rayiner wrote: post #587
JamisonM wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their stated demands are the dissolution of the current democratically elected government, they've conducted educational seminars about the dangers of vaccination full of outlandishly false information. Anyone can believe anything they like but none are required to be so credulous as to believe that the protests are simply about vaccine mandates given the large quantity of published evidence that the organizers and p…

> Their stated demands are the dissolution of the current democratically elected government “Dissolution of the government” has innocuous meaning in a parliamentary system, where “the government” refers to the executive authority of the current party or coalition in power in parliament: https://sencanada.ca/en/sencaplus/how-why/what-is-dissolutio... . It’s about as dramatic as a recall election in certain American st…

I am not deliberately using unfamiliarity with the term to suggest the truckers are calling for overthrow of the governing institutions of the country - they are in fact calling for exactly that, they published an MOU that didn't call for the government to resign but rather called for the Governor General and the Senate to declare the parliament illegitimate.

I was being overly generous in my language by implying that they were just calling for the government to voluntarily resign when in fact they are asking for a non-constitutional coup. I was trying to err on the side of being too fair to their position.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#689

Post by [deleted] »

abledon wrote: post #474
tw600040 wrote: post #436

When protests were happening in India this is what Trudeau had to say: "Let me remind you, Canada will always be there to defend the rights of peaceful protesters. We believe in the process of dialogue. We’ve reached out through multiple means to the Indian authorities to highlight our concerns. This is a moment for all of us to pull together,"Justin Trudeau said. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-…

was it only the 10% fringe farmers protesting? or the 90% majority of farmers?

[deleted]

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#690

Post by bawolff »

vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

> The act also allows for the military to be used as police,

Say what now? Which part of the act allows that? I skimmed through it and didn't see anything relevant.

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