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Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

independent.com

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Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#681

Post by thehappypm »

dEnigma wrote: post #561
thehappypm wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's what this proposal is replacing.

But the real alternative is another (better) proposal, not keeping things as they are.

Sure, but the school can't justify spending triple per student than standard dorms cost. Even with the gift, the school needs to be financially responsible, and making a huge leap in quality of life would seem financially irresponsible when thousands of other colleges squeeze kids into forced doubles and triples. This is a step towards giving students both privacy and spaces to socialize, with some drawbacks that are a consequence of not having infinite funding.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#682

Post by wpietri »

colinmhayes wrote: post #322
wpietri wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, some of the quotes here: "Good luck surviving seasonal depression or maintaining your slowly failing eyesight, especially during a pandemic and you should not be spending long periods in common spaces, when 95% of the rooms in Munger have NO WINDOW" "It can be a huge problem for people to live in because normally people would feel very uncomfortable living in a room without windows, and you don't even have a saf…

I wouldn't say the housing market in Ann Arbor has a fair bit of choice. The vast majority of undergrads live in frat style 7+ bedroom houses. There really aren't a huge number of 1 or even 2 bedroom apartments available, and what does exist is either incredibly run down or 2k+ a month in a high rise building that grad students can't afford. North campus has better 1/2 bed options, but only engineering and art studen…

It's super frustrating when people take a phrase, change its meaning by removing it from context, and then nitpick it.

That the choices are ones you don't like doesn't mean they aren't choices. The people who live in Munger all did so voluntarily, meaning that they're going to be the people who were most likely to be ok with Munger's limitations.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#683

Post by wpietri »

treis wrote: post #657
wolverine876 wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't have cared in the slightest bit about a window. Of course you're entitled to your preferences, but we can safely say that the vast majority want windows in their living space.

Nobody said anything about not wanting windows. It's the choice between a window and sharing a single room with 4 people. No window is the easy choice.

For you, perhaps. And maybe I would have said the same thing in college, when I paid approximately zero attention to my health. But I learned in the years since that light levels make a huge difference. A room like that could easily have pushed me into severe "seasonal" depression.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#684

Post by MisterBastahrd »

dragonwriter wrote: post #604
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't contradict a single thing I said. Drill requirements in particular are utter jokes. Nobody pays any attention to them.

> You didn't contradict a single thing I said. Not every response is intended to be an argument. > Drill requirements in particular are utter jokes. Nobody pays any attention to them. Every public entity I’ve been involved with enough to know how they address them has, private entities are more varied.

Every public entity I've ever encountered past high school has failed miserably at getting even 30% participation in fire drills.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#685

Post by pwg »

jefftk wrote: post #373
capableweb wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. From the linked articles above: > Because the doors to the stairwells and exits were locked – a common practice at the time to prevent workers from taking unauthorized breaks and to reduce theft – many of the workers could not escape from the burning building and jumped from the high windows. > Various historians have also ascribed the exit doors being locked to management's wanting to keep out union organize…

"Because the doors to the stairwells and exits were locked – a common practice at the time..." Your quote is from a fire in 1911 . This is no longer at all common practice, and would get the university in serious trouble during regular inspections.

2019 - a set of building exit doors with panic bars for egress gets locked closed at work presumably because those using them were letting in too much cold outside air in the depth of winter.

Reported the "locked" status to the local fire inspector, the panic bars were unlocked the next day.

So it is not just in 1911 that folks with the key to the lock get the bright idea to lock a door that is meant to serve as an emergency exit in the event of a fire or other emergency.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#686

Post by m4rtink »

Accujack wrote: post #663
bmitc wrote: post #627

People are discussing this design as if it is an actual design worthy of discussion. What it is is the product of a bum amateur "architect" wanting to feed his narcissism and legacy who just happens to be a billionaire. That and universities that have become slaves to money and fundraising. Charles Munger is apparently one of Buffet's cronies at Berkshire Hathaway. It's telling that the committee was basically not in…

*edit: I did just realize, however, that the floor plan for this dorm might make an excellent layout for a large number of bedrooms in a game of Dwarf Fortress. -------- Agreed. His assumptions seem questionable... the whole design is built around the idea that forcing students to interact is objectively good. Even ignoring the pandemic, there's no justification for this other than his assumptions that it's somehow "…

Indeed! No windows under ground anyway. :-)

It would be actually an interesting challenge to build dwarf housing where everyone does get a window into a skylight or even, gasp, somewhere where Sun might shine!

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#687

Post by m4rtink »

yardie wrote: post #444
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I'd also challenge that we shouldn't be designing our permanent, 100+ year structures around pandemics.

I'll wait for the medical profession to tell me the cure for a major ailment is a windowless, tightly enclosed space with limited circulation.

It can help against radiation sickness (with thick enough walls providing shielding) or possibly agains drowning or vacuum exposure (if sufficiently pressure tight). ;-)

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#688

Post by m4rtink »

jefftk wrote: post #373
capableweb wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. From the linked articles above: > Because the doors to the stairwells and exits were locked – a common practice at the time to prevent workers from taking unauthorized breaks and to reduce theft – many of the workers could not escape from the burning building and jumped from the high windows. > Various historians have also ascribed the exit doors being locked to management's wanting to keep out union organize…

"Because the doors to the stairwells and exits were locked – a common practice at the time..." Your quote is from a fire in 1911 . This is no longer at all common practice, and would get the university in serious trouble during regular inspections.

Its still much too common even today - a 2002 casino fire killed two fire fighters and one employee due to locked fire exit:

https://brnensky.denik.cz/zpravy_region/zemrele-kolegy-uctil...

I pass that monument quite often...

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#689

Post by IggleSniggle »

wpietri wrote: post #683
treis wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody said anything about not wanting windows. It's the choice between a window and sharing a single room with 4 people. No window is the easy choice.

For you, perhaps. And maybe I would have said the same thing in college, when I paid approximately zero attention to my health. But I learned in the years since that light levels make a huge difference. A room like that could easily have pushed me into severe "seasonal" depression.

Exactly. These days, I know that the pain of 3 obnoxious "same-room" roommates may still be worth the price vs sunlight, which will dramatically affect my overall mood. I can easily complain about the roommates, but the light will have a greater real effect on my mood.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#690

Post by mindcrime »

mindcrime wrote: post #91

From my point-of-view as a former firefighter, I would say this: A building meant to house 4500 students, with only two entrances? There's a word for that: deathtrap. Building this is setting UCSB up to be the site of the next Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire[1], Station Nightclub fire[2], or Hamlet Chicken Processing Plant fire[3]. At a first glance, based only on the information provided in the article, I'd say tha…

As promised, here is the response I received from Santa Barbara County FD:

Thanks for reaching out to us. While the Munger Hall is not our review responsibility, we are working very closely with the UCSB Fire Marshal in his review. We have a great working relationship with the Fire Marshal. We have had numerous meetings on this project and the Fire Marshal is open and willing to suggestions when it come to fire and life safety issues. We will continue to meet on this project and it is our hope that all fire and life safety issues will be addressed. I am available if you have any further questions or concern. You can also reach out the University Fire Marshal.

So, not a lot of detail (I expected that) but it is interesting that they do seem to allude to there indeed being fire safety issues which need to be addressed.

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