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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#681

Post by vladTheInhaler »

lliamander wrote: post #651
mjevans wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We make people take a test to drive. People should have to take a Civics based test to vote. If someone wants to vote but fails the civics test, they should then immediately qualify for a minimum living wage job to go back to public education and get paid for getting at least an 80% grade at whatever grade level they're working at (obviously with either enrollment at lower grade levels, classification as disability i…

Wouldn't that first requiring proof of voter identification? I'm sure plenty of Trump supporters would be down with this plan.

The thing about voter ID is that it isn't inherently a bad idea, as long as you make it really cheap (ideally free) and convenient to get one. If republicans were actually interested in election integrity and civic participation, they wouldn't keep accidentally forgetting that part. But they're not, so in practice it ends up acting as a tool for discrimination and disenfranchisement.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#682

Post by Rexxar »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #674
beltex wrote: post #641

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” — George Orwell, Animal Farm I understand the moves by Stripe, Twitter, and co. However, I would argue that the long term implications set by this precedent are much worse. When the Snowden story first broke back in 2013, many on HN argued that, hey it's all good, I have nothing to hide, and I trust our President. Three short years later, who took…

You're pointing out Snowden in 13 and Trump in 16 and implying there's a causal relationship between the two. This is ludicrous, Trump was elected due to numerous factors, it'd be hard to place Snowden in even the top 10. immigration, trade, feckless GOP, crowded primary field, biased dem primary, weak dem candidate, I could make massive list more important than Snowden. All trump's supporters would say about Snowden…

> You're pointing out Snowden in 13 and Trump in 16 and implying there's a causal relationship between the two.

Your are misinterpreting his comment. He says that you can't 100% trust in long term government/administration. There will always be a bad guy somewhere at some moment.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#683

Post by infogulch »

wnevets wrote: post #552
trustfundbaby wrote: post #279

I was on the fence about this, but reading the comments convinced me it was the absolute right decision. The fact that all these institutions just allowed this horrible hateful speech for four years, in the name of free speech etc, despite all the harassment, harm (mental and otherwise) it caused to so many people in America actually emboldened so many to the extent that now that they crossed this invisible line, the…

Lets be honest, republicans (including trump) fought hard to allow companies to do this and much worse. They just though only cake companies in the bible belt would do it to gay couples, not to republicans.

Its not very wise to construct a political weapon to use against your opponents without also considering how they could use it against you.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#684

Post by gfodor »

incrudible wrote: post #353
eejit_compiler wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterexample: The Pirate Bay have successfully dealt with this sort of thing for many years, and they were subject to much harsher and more sustained censorship. Including legal attacks by various nation states. Is it really totalitarianism in this case? Or, just some private companies inconveniencing people by choosing not to do business with them?

It is divise and it will backfire. Soon there will have to be a separate everything for Republicans and Democrats. Chances are that Trump is going to own a big part of it. That is why Trump is not on Gab or Parler, because he will compete with them.

I think you are correct except it remains to be seen if the new alt-Internet is centralized or decentralized.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#685

Post by systemvoltage »

rayiner wrote: post #634
systemvoltage wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their defense, I agree with you that this is a first time when global internet connectivity + social media + hatespeech cocktail has become poisonous to our societal health. We need to deeply think about all this - allowing peaceful, objective, conservative opinions and policy (such as the Lincoln Project) while condemning hate speech, violence, white supremacy and other racist behavior. "He who fights with monste…

> We need to deeply think about all this - allowing peaceful, objective, conservative opinions and policy (such as the Lincoln Project) while condemning hate speech, violence, white supremacy and other racist behavior. But that’s the problem. Nobody trusts people in Silicon Valley or New York City to decide what those things are. These are people who have internalized ideas like “you can’t be racist against white peo…

There shouldn't be any problem with these discussions when they're posed without hate. Immigration for example should be discussed in terms of cost/benefit and immigration of talent, policies, etc., not "Build a wall and Mexico will pay for it" or outright banning people based on religion (remember Muslim ban?).

The problem is that these are not conservative principles. This is just hate spewing, plain and straight.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#686

Post by tasogare »

BoorishBears wrote: post #627
systemvoltage wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also worried. It feels like Big Tech flourished in last 4 years with advertisement revenue while staying hush about these issues, but all of a sudden they have an epiphany now. Big Tech leaders are selfish, cowards, clueless and just as vulnerable as the government leaders. They were interested in milking billions in Ads from these hate speech, particularly Twitter. If I were employees at these big companies, I…

> What changed? The US Capitol riots is the specific moment that made them all wake up? Why shouldn't it be? For 4 years they said "we won't suspend a sitting president because we recognize our role in society but once Trump's not sitting he's fair game for bans" I mean POTUS threatened nuclear war on their _social media platform_ and they let it go... - It's quite simple, allowing sitting POTUS special privileges wa…

Note that Erdogan, an actual dictator, with military offensives on record (Syria, Karabash, Libya) and war-like operations (radar illumination against French warship, violations of Greece territorial waters) is not restricted at all on Twitter while the only US president in recent times that didn’t send troops abroad or start a new war is censored. It clearly shows that it’s not dangerousity of speech or personality that is censored.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#687

Post by weixiyen »

beltex wrote: post #641

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” — George Orwell, Animal Farm I understand the moves by Stripe, Twitter, and co. However, I would argue that the long term implications set by this precedent are much worse. When the Snowden story first broke back in 2013, many on HN argued that, hey it's all good, I have nothing to hide, and I trust our President. Three short years later, who took…

> When the Snowden story first broke back in 2013, many on HN argued that, hey it's all good, I have nothing to hide, and I trust our President.

Most of the public was pro-Snowden, especially the tech community. Telegram rose like a rocketship as a result of concerns over NSA backdoors.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#688

Post by ramraj07 »

beltex wrote: post #641

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” — George Orwell, Animal Farm I understand the moves by Stripe, Twitter, and co. However, I would argue that the long term implications set by this precedent are much worse. When the Snowden story first broke back in 2013, many on HN argued that, hey it's all good, I have nothing to hide, and I trust our President. Three short years later, who took…

Can you prove that the same people who said "so what" to Snowden said "this is fine to these tech actions? My personal experience is that the people who opposed to mass surveillance are fully in support of these actions. At least I do.

It's fairly clear where these companies are drawing a line, and for most people like me, it's a perfectly acceptable line. Being the cause of actual violence and death means you get to be banned. Fairly clear?

The more murky question is people who think all cake shops should serve gay weddings but twitter should also be allowed to ban trump. Tough call and nuance involved there, but I doubt there's much ambiguity separating where one stands on Snowden's revalations and these recent bans

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#689

Post by systemvoltage »

ekianjo wrote: post #680
systemvoltage wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their defense, I agree with you that this is a first time when global internet connectivity + social media + hatespeech cocktail has become poisonous to our societal health. We need to deeply think about all this - allowing peaceful, objective, conservative opinions and policy (such as the Lincoln Project) while condemning hate speech, violence, white supremacy and other racist behavior. "He who fights with monste…

> allowing peaceful, objective, conservative opinions and policy (such as the Lincoln Project Lol the same lincoln project that said on Twitter they are now building a database of all republicans to chastise them forever? Thats peaceful all right.

I've seen some of their hateful ads. Not cool.

There is more to it though: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/opinion/lincoln-project.h...

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#690

Post by acdha »

beltex wrote: post #641

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” — George Orwell, Animal Farm I understand the moves by Stripe, Twitter, and co. However, I would argue that the long term implications set by this precedent are much worse. When the Snowden story first broke back in 2013, many on HN argued that, hey it's all good, I have nothing to hide, and I trust our President. Three short years later, who took…

> When the Snowden story first broke back in 2013, many on HN argued that, hey it's all good, I have nothing to hide, and I trust our President

This is … not even remotely how I remember that period, more of a sense of outrage and companies rushing to encrypt internal connections and deploy PFS.

> If the leader of the free world can be banned from all social media and co, who are based in the very same nation, and who are monopolies, then what hope is there for the rest of us?

This isn’t a great fit: Trump isn’t being banned for being a conservative or talking policies, but for inciting violence which lead to a deadly mob. If all that happens are companies enforcing their terms of service against violence or hate speech evenly, that bothers me a lot less — especially since in this case it’s treating everyone consistently rather than singling him out for special treatment.

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