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I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

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Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#681

Post by mcdevilkiller »

lhl wrote: post #450
xondono wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? There’s a lot of laptops that hit their top clocks with no issues. The main problem is that doing so seriously reduces your battery duration and emits significant noise. Pick anything over the 800$ range that isn’t a macbook and you’re way more likely to hit clocks than not.

The problem isn't hitting the top clocks, but sustaining them. Only the biggest "desktop replacement" class laptops tend to be able to sustain 120W+ CPU dissipation. Note that workstation-class (H) laptop CPUs also make compromises on performance - the Ryzen 9 4900H is 8C16T but only has 4MB L2$, 8MB L3$, and a max TDP of 54W. A desktop Ryzen 9 3950X by comparison is 16C32T and has 8MB L2$, 64MB L3$, and a 105W defau…

My 3950x got to 315W socket power with OC. It wasn't stable, as it was just testing.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#682

Post by mcdevilkiller »

xondono wrote: post #612
lhl wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't hitting the top clocks, but sustaining them. Only the biggest "desktop replacement" class laptops tend to be able to sustain 120W+ CPU dissipation. Note that workstation-class (H) laptop CPUs also make compromises on performance - the Ryzen 9 4900H is 8C16T but only has 4MB L2$, 8MB L3$, and a max TDP of 54W. A desktop Ryzen 9 3950X by comparison is 16C32T and has 8MB L2$, 64MB L3$, and a 105W defau…

Ignoring the discussion around TDP figures, I’m well aware of the power limits, but that was (IHMO) not the point of OP. It’s obvious that it’s impossible at the moment to get 3950X performance in a laptop format, but you can get laptops able to keep temps reasonable with 35-50W, and that’s what a lot of laptop SoCs target as total power. Those SoCs hit (and sustain) their top clocks, whatever those are for that spec…

Well, you can get a 3950x on a laptop, capped at 95w TDP. XMG, Cyberpower and Schenker sell those (manufactured by Tongfang)

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#683

Post by Tsiklon »

lhl wrote: post #597
Tsiklon wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside you have an interesting notation, using $ to substitute for cache, using that symbol never once crossed my mind hah

Hmm, I suppose it's fallen a bit out of favor recently, I don't see it quite as much as I used to, but it's pretty much standard terminology in the semi industry showing up in everything from academic papers to data sheets (commonly you'll see that as D$ and I$ - data and instruction cache).

Perhaps why I've not seen it before is likely due to localization - I'm in the UK and of course the Pound has it's own symbol, thus the connection of $ -> Cash -> Cache may not be so readily made.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#684

Post by pkulak »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #591
pkulak wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a point about the loud graphics cards: all of them now don't even spin their fans unless you are gaming. So it is kinda nice to spend a bit of money on one to get two machines in one (work and play).

I've had some very cheap cards that ramp up to 100% when powered on, making quite a racket. After 5 seconds, they would slow to something more reasonable.

My motherboard does that too. I always assumed it was to get all the fans spinning, in case you have them volted down to a point where they will continue to run, just not start.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#685

Post by SergeAx »

cehrlich wrote: post #572
SergeAx wrote: post #380

I can't grok why people fall for laptops in the first place. Laptops are a bunch of compromises in every detail: screen size, storage volume, keyboard, sound etc etc. I got my first PC 30 years ago and never bought a new one ever since. It was always upgrades, small or large. Even stepping up MB and CPU I've kept my drives, graphics card, most of the smaller peripherals, sometimes even RAM, so even the largest change…

I don't think people "fall" for laptops. They're well aware of the cons, but the single pro of not being strapped to a desk outweighs all of the disadvantages for many people. I'm using a MacBook Pro from 2014, after putting in a new battery recently it still works great, and when I'm at my desk I plug it into a big monitor. Not as upgradeable as a desktop, but even assuming I can't sell the laptop when I upgrade it,…

Ah, Apple ecosystem! Then alas, you don't actually have any viable choice. Desktops are Mac Mini or iMac, first is crippled, last is overpriced, both are almost non-upgradeble (

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#686

Post by approxim8ion »

mcv wrote: post #664
GiveOver wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Fn' on the bottom left and 'Ctrl' to the right of it. ARGH!

This is the one big downside of Thinkpads. They're fantastic otherwise, but what kind of monster puts Fn to the left of Ctrl?

I hate when ThinkPad lovers point out that it can be remapped in BIOS... it's not the same thing! The width of the keys is different and at least in my sporadic use of colleagues' ThinkPads, it's been a major pain point.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#687

Post by AMC11 »

cjfd wrote: post #565

When I bought my current desktop computer it was not so very easy to find one without windows. I live in the Netherlands and I actually ended up ordering one from Germany. It used to be that I could just buy a windows-free pc from the local computer store. I find this a bit worrisome and shocking...

Couldn’t you get rid of Windows and use whatever OS you want?

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#688

Post by cehrlich »

SergeAx wrote: post #685
cehrlich wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people "fall" for laptops. They're well aware of the cons, but the single pro of not being strapped to a desk outweighs all of the disadvantages for many people. I'm using a MacBook Pro from 2014, after putting in a new battery recently it still works great, and when I'm at my desk I plug it into a big monitor. Not as upgradeable as a desktop, but even assuming I can't sell the laptop when I upgrade it,…

Ah, Apple ecosystem! Then alas, you don't actually have any viable choice. Desktops are Mac Mini or iMac, first is crippled, last is overpriced, both are almost non-upgradeble (

I’ve owned Windows desktops in the past. I prefer MacOS, but Windows is fine. The reason I use laptops is because I only want to own one computer, and that one computer needs to be portable, not because I’m stuck in an ecosystem.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#689

Post by vermaden »

busrf wrote: post #624
vermaden wrote: post #541

Not to even mention these shitty island type keyboards in all laptops. From all features of pre 2012-NOW laptops the REAL KEYBOARD is what I miss the most. I really hoped that Lenovo will make something more from its 25th Anniversary Edition ThinkPad (some name id T25) but from what I know only 5000 pieces were made and finito. Or ar least that Lenovo will PERMANENTLY provice a classic/retro ThinkPad with every new g…

To be quite honest I also thought, once upon a time, that I could NEVER leave my proper 7 row X220t keyboard for the shitty new island keyboards in new thinkpads. I now type happily on my X1 Yoga. It’s a very good keyboard, you get used to it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are tradeoffs we all have to make, and I chose having new processors and things like USB-C over having a really good built in keyboard. I just settled for a good…

I used this type of keyboard for 3 years on ThinkPad W530.

Thought that I will get used to it. I kinda did but the first moment when I moved back to REAL 7-row keyboard was like driving a bike again. Its just so good I do not want to get back to anything other then that.

Maybe I will have two machines. One to type and one for other things ... or with external ThinkPad SK-8855 keyboard :)

Time will come, maybe I will do one last 'hop' with ThinkPad 25th Anniversary Edition ... if they will be available in several years ...

Thanks.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#690

Post by smichel17 »

sundvor wrote: post #475
noobermin wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was with the author on most things till this. This just feels like an annoying complaint. That said, sure making your own desktop is also an option.

Yep, on that, I made my own desktop workstation - but it certainly wasn't "cheap". Latest gen AMD motherboard with strong power delivery, 32gb of blistering fast memory (3600/16), 12/24 core Ryzen CPU @ 4.4ghz all core (1.27vcore loaded; 1.3v idle), PCIE4 NVME storage - 1kw platinum PSU, 360mm AIO CPU cooling (one DYI was enough..), a great case with terrific airflow (Define 7 Dark TG, Corsair ML140 fans) - overall i…

Of course it's not cheap on an absolute scale if you buy the absolute top of the line specs. It is still relatively cheap — try buying a laptop with those specs (or, more reasonably, the other way around). Especially if you don't buy the latest gen, which really isn't needed.

I'm still running an i7 6700. Initially it was one of the fastest components in my system, but has become the bottleneck as I've upgraded the parts around it (added a discrete gpu and nvme ssd, affecting the bottleneck for gaming and compiling, respectively). But honestly, it's still good enough most of the time, and I'm in no hurry to replace it.

Also/especially, while the initial build is not that much cheaper, the cost over time is — both the longer expected lifetime of the parts and the ability to upgrade piecemeal instead of replacing the whole thing.

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