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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#681

Post by jb775 »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

You're overthinking this. It's one thing for a popular app to come from another country. It's another thing when that country has complete control over business decisions, is your biggest global competitor, and is known to play dirty.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#682

Post by cwhiz »

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them.

Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations.

Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existing western chat and social media software?? Unlikely.

If China wants their companies to be able to access western markets then they must allow western companies to access their markets.

Quite frankly, the entire western world should be banding together to oppose this nonsense from China. We should outright ban any goods or technology that originates in China until China changes its behavior and opens its economy.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#683

Post by sukilot »

ethbro wrote: post #587
kinnth wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China didn't ban them, they just asked them to play by Chinese Rules. I think it should be the same. Instead of Banning the US should setup what US rules they expect international companies to play by, as should the EU etc.

Nobody in the US has an appetite for forcing TikTok into a 49% joint venture and mandating key escrow.

US rules could be "key escrows are banned".

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#684

Post by pbhjpbhj »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #669

I am going to ignore value judgment over whether it is fair, or whether it even makes sense and am going to jump straight to enforcement framework and EO interpretation. EO appears to single out two entities WeChat ( Tencent subsidiary ) and TikTok ( ByteDance subsidiary ). EO appears to indicate that the restrictions will be governed by sanctions framework. Tencent owns a fair amount of gaming outfits so based on ow…

This joke was good:

> In addition, the application captures the personal and proprietary information of Chinese nationals visiting the United States, thereby allowing the Chinese Communist Party a mechanism for keeping tabs on Chinese citizens who may be enjoying the benefits of a free society for the first time in their lives. //

Because only a fascissistic dictatorial government would be shooting on it's own citizens, eh.

Who is using TikTok for something that's got any business or political sensitivity?

I'm surprised Trump doesn't just admit 'China is beating us on internet platforms, we're not going to let them win financially'. He could present it as 'leveling the playing field'. That sort of overtly authoritarian dictatorial xenophobic fascism seems to be lapped up by the USA public at the moment?

Or does anyone want to defend that some video of me dancing to music is somehow critical to keep private??

I can see there's a side effect of the USA administration not wanting any apps they don't have a backdoor to being used in USA.

They don't say which companies will be subject to the order, really open and free (presumably to allow maximum market manipulation [fluctuation on the speculated actions, then controlled movement according to which companies the order covers] and a month and a half to get relevant bribes).

Tl;dr depends if Grinding Gears pays Trump enough campaign funding I'd guess.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#685

Post by cwhiz »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US??

This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the ground in China, they can’t.

Would WeChat or TikTok exist if western chat and social media apps were given total access to Chinese markets??? Extreme doubt.

The eventual end result of bending over to China is a world where all of the goods, services, and software are owned by China. This imbalance that China has created is unworkable and cannot be allowed to continue.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#686

Post by cloverich »

hakka-nyu-su wrote: post #647
dominotw wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". It also works if we divide the world into "China tribe" and "rest of the world tribe" . Infact thats the way it always have been, now china is getting kicked out of "rest of the world tribe" . India and USA are just taking the lead, rest will follow. I am ok with that.

What is this comment trying to say, by putting China outside of the "rest of the world tribe"? Does this mean that Chinese people are a different species, or what?

It is countering OPs assertion that this is US vs China. They are arguing China is drawing a line around themselves (to keep competition out), and the US is merely recognizing it (by keeping competition in) and still participating with the rest of the world economy.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#687

Post by baconandeggs »

paxys wrote: post #91

None of these Chinese companies would have grown to what they are today without intense government-enforced protectionism at home, and until China agrees to compete on a fair playing field I'm perfectly fine with them all being banned outside of their firewall. Would China ever agree to let Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Messenger etc. or any new startup operate freely and make money there? It shou…

What are you talking about? All countries protect their industries. Are we forgetting about Bombardier? All military contractors are almost part of the US government at this point. And Apple, and now Microsoft apparently are leveraging Trump to gain every bit of advantage they can. The US forces entire countries to give favorable deals to american companies and has for decades.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#688

Post by wh1t3n01s3 »

sukilot wrote: post #672
sct202 wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think reciprocal would be more like the 50% local ownership plus government oversight just like China does. It just doesn't look good that they're singled out to be sold off 100% seemingly for being successful with their only issue being that they have been hoovering up data which isn't that unusual for an app.

What other Chinese-government controlled apps are hoovering data?

All of them

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#689

Post by pbhjpbhj »

unishark wrote: post #593
yorwba wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not. It ceases to be re…

> It ceases to be reciprocal if you distinguish groups at an only slightly higher resolution: Chinese businesses like TikTok and WeChat and American businesses like Google and Facebook in addition to the Chinese and American governments. This is pretty much exactly how reciprocity works in other areas like travel and immigration. We treat their nationals as they treat ours. You can see examples worldwide right now wi…

>Congress specifically gives the president the power to counter unfair trade practices by foreign governments. The president executes the laws, he doesn't dictate them. //

Those two sentences are mutually contradictory. Who has the power, the President or Congress. If it's the former, then he does dictate them; if the later then they don't give the power to the President. Pick one?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#690

Post by kgersen »

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

But seen from Europe, your 'western world' = mainly USA ...

which "existing western chat and social media" aren't from the US ?

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