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The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

jarednelsen.dev

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Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#681

Post by amznthrowaway5 »

efficax wrote: post #622
amznthrowaway5 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The right answer will depend on the column separator. Proposing the UNIX cut if the file is CSV is not such a good answer, but for tab-separated files, it is just fine. If the file is CSV and they tell me about cut, my next question would be if that is a good universal solution for CSV files in general. TSV and CSV have the same limitations. A tab-separated file could still have tabs inside a field depending on the…

Seems like you're completely missing the point of the interview question which is to see how someone would approach a problem, investigate its requirements, propose a solution, examine its drawbacks and how they would take feedback on that solution and its possible advantages and disadvantages.

I did not miss that. I was pointing out that glofish said he asked questions like these repeatedly to candidates, but he doesn't even understand the basics of the subject matter. That would not make for a good interview.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#682

Post by ideal0227 »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #675
ideal0227 wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google specifically tells their interviewers to avoid "canned" problems that are already all over the internet. They did a pretty poor job on this already. And it adds one more requirements, the ability to pretend that you have never practiced a similar question before :P. > Leetcode isn't about memorization. Leetcode is training data used to optimize your neural net to solve problems it hasn't seen before. Oh. Tha…

>They did a pretty poor job on this already. And it adds one more requirements, the ability to pretend that you have never practiced a similar question before :P. This is solved by throwing multiple interview questions at the person that are all novel and not derived from the internet. The probability of ALL questions being seened before is very low. >And there are millions of ways to improve problem solving than rep…

> This is solved by throwing multiple interview questions at the person that are all novel and not derived from the internet. The probability of ALL questions being seened before is very low.

This is solved by adding more questions into Leetcode. 1000+ and counting.

> So? Doesn't change the effectiveness of leetcode in passing an interview and displaying your ability to learn and solve novel problems. If you have other ways of passing those interviews outside of leetcode, that's great. Use it.

You missed the point entirely. My argument is that many interviews are not designed for problem solving but practicing and memorization. And this is exactly why Leetcode ensures you to repeat these template 100 times effectively.

I do not plan to pass this kinds of interview, before, now or the future. So why do I bother?

Good luck on your job search anyway. I have no intention on discouraging you to do the practice. I cannot fix anything here.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#683

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

taeric wrote: post #248
chillacy wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think those products failed due to poor engineering, google just hasn’t been great at social (if you don’t count YouTube). Other companies which use the same interview techniques are winning in those exact product spaces.

But, then what are they succeeding at? If engineering hasn't helped them not kill most of their products, what is it helping do? And again, it is more than just social. ChomeOS? Even still a thing? How is android wear doing nowadays? Again, I'm not claiming they are bad at engineering. I honestly don't feel qualified to judge. But I don't know that they are qualified to judge success of new hire, either. Their main s…

> "If engineering hasn't helped them not kill most of their products, what is it helping do?"

Engineering does not set direction, they just build what they're told to. There are entire product management, market research, and similar teams that help senior management decide what to build. This is the case at most large software companies.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#684

Post by BlueTemplar »

jedberg wrote: post #496
BlueTemplar wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about delivering MAFIAA's DRMs around the world ? (after the second attempt by Netflix to get in the streaming market.)

Netflix never wanted to do DRM. They fought the studios and tried to teach them for years that it was pointless. Eventually they had to relent because the studios had more power than they do. To answer the follow up question -- the Netflix originals have DRM because they aren't made by Netflix, they are still made by regular Hollywood studios that demand DRM. And for the few where Netflix has control, it's easier tec…

Sorry, even if Netflix was used as a front for Hollywood for the DRM in HTML push, this smells too much of a "just following orders" justification - they benefited greatly by bending to Hollywood's wishes !

Also, their subscription model is quite different from plain rentals, and I'm having issues with the renting model anyway... and Netflix isn't so much renting as subscription... and even people that don't follow these issues are starting to realize that a system where there's no "standard" and you have to subscribe to multiple subscription platforms is bad !

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#685

Post by northern-lights »

m0zg wrote: post #112
parsimo2010 wrote: post #33

Comedian Daniel Tosh had a bit about people that claimed to be smart, it's just that they were just bad at taking tests. He said, "oh, so you struggle with the part where we find out what you actually know?" I hear a lot of complaints about the "typical" software engineering hiring process, and it usually comes from the people that don't do well within the current system. Could the process be improved? Almost certain…

I'm bad at taking tests. I'm also bad at playing guitar when someone is looking or even when recording myself (and pretty good when playing without anyone looking). I get anxious and self-conscious and that gets in the way of good public performance. This does not translate to public speaking - I'm pretty good at that, and I'm not afraid of audiences of just about any size - my largest so far was ~1K people. I someho…

You just described me haha. In my Google phone screen, I fumbled around on solving an easy-moderate problem - so much so that when it ended, I felt that there was no way even I would hire me. And once it ended, I wrote the code for it in probably 10 minutes. Also, arranging it so that it was the first in the loop did not help either. The only good thing about the process was that the recruiter was nice about the whole debacle and did not make me feel too embarrassed.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#686

Post by Quekid5 »

mnm1 wrote: post #499
Quekid5 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on small orgs, but... recommending startups is a bit iffy, IMO. DGMW, startups can be great, but if you're just a good programmer wanting a stable job, then that startup job is not the job for you. However, you could be a huge contributor and positive influence in a small org... and it's possible to gain a lot of life satisfaction that way[0]. Plus, your employer actually knows you and understands the value y…

I only disagree with "as they must be in a small org". I only wish that was true, but my experience says otherwise. A small company might give one agency or it might not. Or it can do both over time. With a dozen people in the company you'd think it'd be wise, but the latest management trends and compensation procedures prevent it. In other words, we build what the boss wants and have zero incentive and time to work…

That's a very fair point. I can only speak from my own experience on this.

It's a great observation that authoritarian tendencies can probably arise in any size of organization.

(I would advise getting out -- if you can, financially, etc. -- if you do not have self-determination. It's incredibly soul-destroying in the long term. Best of luck.)

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#687

Post by northern-lights »

holografix wrote: post #593

Sincere question: What are you all doing accepting these multi-hour, multi-day take away free consulting gigs? Say NO to this bullshit. Establish a deadline and clear guidelines and expectations: 1. I will not be doing any take away work at all. 2. You will explain how my GitHub repo, resumé, previous experience is insufficient to qualify me for the job in 100 words or more. 3. You will sign an NDA for whatever solut…

I have tried a milder version of this and as anyone can guess - it did not work. The supply is too much and demand not so, the organizations will always pass. Only if you can get the demand-supply to work in your favour will this work.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#688

Post by hansvm »

gambiting wrote: post #680
monoideism wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read from blog posts and even from conversations that companies require acquihires, particularly non-founder employees, to go through an interview process. It may be shortened, but they still often have to do the typical algorithmic interviews. I'll see if I can find one of the blog posts I've read about the process. Note: to be clear, I'm describing the process for acquihires, not founders just wanting to sell…

Is that a uniquely American thing? I'm 100% certain that even if the company I work for was acquired, my current contract would still apply. So I would need to be given at least 3 months notice, and couldn't be discharged without a good reason - failing some internal interview wouldn't be such a reason.

Perhaps. Most places in the US an employment contract can be terminated at will for almost any reason or without any specific reason.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#689

Post by jonex »

hogFeast wrote: post #426
coconut_crab wrote: post #52

> There is a cottage industry springing up around passing interviews This, a million times. I was told to practice solving dynamic programming problems to prepare for the interview[1]. Looking around the web I found out that people spending months solving thousands of dynamic programming problems, just for getting a job. This strongly reminds me of the rote learning I had to do in order to get into university, which…

Just speculation but I think a big part of this is that it is often quite difficult to lay off staff. The issue isn't that you assess employees poorly...it is very hard to be right based on knowing someone for a couple of hours...but that it is so hard to get rid of someone if you are wrong. Would you marry someone after meeting for as long as the interview? That is the decision for a lot of companies. I think that i…

It's not easy to fire people in Sweden. You are not allowed to fire just because of lack in skill. Typically they would have to be severely negligent (like basically intentionally sabotaging) or there has to be a lack of work for that role. (In the latter case, they would have precedence for the job if you try to hire a replacement)

But for people just out of university it's common to hire people with a probationary period of a few month, during which you are allowed to terminate the employment without any specific reason. This probably helps some people, who don't have the right experience, to get a job.

I'd say that it's not very common that the opportunity for termination is actually used though, so I wouldn't credit it for any perceived success of Swedish tech.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#690

Post by ProZsolt »

organsnyder wrote: post #395
bilekas wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to note about coding interviews, they're very simular to somone looking over your shoulder while you're working. Nobody can perform well like that.. One great colleague who I wish I was in the interview for, simple started thinking out loud. Everything he was thinking, he said out loud, and of course, the team loved it. Because thats all it's about. If its not over a video chat/submission, comment your code…

I did that for an interview for what is now my employer. It was via Skype with a shared code editor. The interviewer asked me to implement a data structure that I had not used (directly—I'm sure plenty of libraries I use utilize it) since college, and I said as much. I told him I was quickly looking it up on Wikipedia, skimmed the article (mumbling to myself, I'm sure), and then proceeded to implement it. My candor a…

My problem I can do this when I'm alone or when it's a real pair coding. During an interview when stress and adrenaline kick in. I'll make a silly mistake and after that, because I'm judged by the other person my brain locks up. I'm feeling like a total fraud.
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