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California Approves Statewide Rent Control

nytimes.com

681–690 of 1001 posts

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#681
post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent control in SF really is that bad. Rent increase limits are 60% of CPI, so it can’t even match inflation. If your costs go up (utilities) or you want to do capital improvements, good luck getting the rent board to approve a pass through. Want to prevent other people than the tenant from moving into a 1 bedroom? Tough, can’t say no to that, it just has to be under 3 people. Want to move into your own house? Sure,…

Why should I care about the woes of landlords as opposed to renters?

Because it is hurting the would-be renter group even more?

I personally know two people who are renting rent-controlled apartments in SF and don't live in them. Their lives have moved elsewhere and they don't need the place anymore. One uses it as a weekend getaway and the other one visits rarely.

Thanks to rent control their rent is so cheap that it's worth hanging on to it even though they don't live there.

So these two units are off the rental market effectively forever, sitting empty most of the time.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also 2. Realize that not everybody in the world needs to or should live in the Bay Area/Hollywood. 3. Don't pass statewide laws catering primarily to the group of people aspiring to do so.

This needs to be talked about more. Entitlement was never a core tenant (no pun intended) of the American dream.

It's tenet if you don't intend the pun, by the way.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. Until suppression of building new units stops (by poor, helpless owners), this is the only recourse. I agree wholeheartedly that the real solution is to build more homes but that doesn't appear to be in the cards. So the idea that rent control doesn't actually help lower income people is _completely_ nuts. I know of many people off the top of my head that no-way would still be living in San Francisco…

If there weren't rent control, market rents would certainly be much lower, so it's really hard to say whether your aunt and uncle could afford it or not. Surely you weren't basing your statement on the current market rent in their neighborhood? On what basis are you making that claim?

> If there weren't rent control, market rents would certainly be much lower

source?

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#684
post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea but moving as an individual is stressful and 10x moreso for families. We’re trying to keep people off the streets and from having to make bad decisions without hurting the landlords ability to capitalize on their investment. This is a compromise.

Not to mention a sudden, unexpected expense in a situation where renters are on a tight budget and likely don't have much or any savings.

That’s it. That’s all this is. The law is just regulating shitty behavior. But you always have those who say “well I can legally raise blah and if I don’t less money.”

Well now they can’t. Good. We’ve made it slightly hard to be a major cunt.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#685

I'm shocked at the ideological fervor here and the fact that virtually no one seems to have looked at the details of the actual bill. This is nothing like the rent control ordinance in SF that has caused $3000 units to get stuck at $500 rents. That will never happen under this law. The allowable increases are so much higher than "normal" rent control laws that any given unit will catch up to market rates in a matter…

Well said. It is weird to see so many people jumping out to lay the accusations of 'uninformed!', 'never works', etc...

In fact, the CA, especially in bay area, the rent is already top among this country. 7% on top of that is still a quite sizable increase. And it is hilarious to see those (aspiring) landlords playing the blame-the-game-not-the-player rhetoric here to blame the government not allowing more houses to be built, while themselves being one of the biggest opponents to such initiative.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#686
post #675

I'm shocked at the ideological fervor here and the fact that virtually no one seems to have looked at the details of the actual bill. This is nothing like the rent control ordinance in SF that has caused $3000 units to get stuck at $500 rents. That will never happen under this law. The allowable increases are so much higher than "normal" rent control laws that any given unit will catch up to market rates in a matter…

At a maximum 5% increase per year, it takes 37 years for a $500 unit to catch up to the $3000 market price. So this law doesn't help that much with that particular case.

I think the example was that this law will not create such a scenario, in the way that previous rent control schemes have.

The example given is of a 500% increase in rent, by definition no rent control law should make such an increase possible in a short time frame.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the market clearing price increases at greater than 5% plus inflation? This isn’t a free lunch, the tradeoff of a price cap is under provision of a good.

We currently have a drastic under provision of a good to the tune of 3.5 million homes in CA alone. This under provision is not because building new homes isn't profitable, it is because realtors, landlords and homeowners are actively blocking new supply in order to extract above market rents from desperate people. Adding a rent cap of MORE THAN DOUBLE inflation will have no affect on supply, it is ridiculously profi…

> it is ridiculously profitable to rent out your property right now

I'd be curious if you can share specific numbers on where this is true?

Where in CA can I buy a house/apt and rent it out for more than the mortgage+insurance+taxes+maintenance? A link to the MLS listing would be appreciated.

Every now and then I look at housing costs vs. rental income to consider buying some investment property. But the numbers never work out, I'd always end up loosing money to rent it out.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#688
post #184
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gives me money? What? So arbitrary rent is a much better way to keep rent down? Come on...

Arbitrary rent? No, the market rate. And yes, if you’re living in a rent controlled place and paying $1000 per month when the same place is going for $3000, it’s virtually a cash transfer from the landlord to you every month. That’s why you hear about massive ($100k+) buyouts in SF.

It's only fair to pay market rate rent as a tenant if the landlord pays market rate property taxes. Why should the state subsidies the landlord and not the tenant?

It's mind blowing how landlords forget that the reason the vast majority of them can afford to be a landlord is because they don't pay market rate property taxes.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens to the people that want to live there and are willing to pay a higher price for it?

"What happens to the firemen and teachers?" is a more important question than "What happens to the tech workers?"

Why?

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#690

I'm shocked at the ideological fervor here and the fact that virtually no one seems to have looked at the details of the actual bill. This is nothing like the rent control ordinance in SF that has caused $3000 units to get stuck at $500 rents. That will never happen under this law. The allowable increases are so much higher than "normal" rent control laws that any given unit will catch up to market rates in a matter…

I agree with you. I’m renting out a previous condo, and as a landlord, this law strikes me as reasonable and measured. The market will still find its natural level. These controls merely dampen short-term shocks, allowing tenants and communities time to adjust as market conditions change.

To take the other side of the argument here I'm completely against this change but I'm happy that it passed. The reason is simple: without data we're all just speculating. If I'm correct, now I will have real bias-free (since we're looking at this exact location as opposed to other locations where rent control has had... issues) data to support my views.

And of course only a fool would cling to certainty on issues this complex. It's very possible my views are wrong. And if they are then that's a great outcome. If they're not? Well the cost of this experiment is not going to be that big, and it can be reversed relatively easily.

The one thing I think both sides often fail to do though is to set falsifiable metrics before running such an experiment. Take a group of qualified individuals against the program, and those for the program. And have them sit down and work out their expectations of the program. So for instance homelessness. The pro side probably expects this will cause it to decline, the neg side probably does not expect it to have much of an effect. Why not convert those views to numbers collected in a mutually agreed upon fashion, which can then be regularly published - alongside results? And let's see who's right, with accurate data. Of course there are confounders. If we hit a major recession, homelessness will increase regardless. These factors could be mentioned alongside such data.

Instead without doing things beforehand both sides are simply going to spin arguments entirely in their favor, such as with the case of minimum wage increases. Did minimum wage increases collapse the economies? No. Did they cause some economic damage? Yes. Did they bring about a great life for low earners? No. Did they improve the quality of life of some low earners? Yes. And so both sides just create disingenuous arguments painting themselves as 100% correct, which informs nobody and divides everybody, since both sides come back with 'told ya so!'

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