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The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

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Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#681

We need to get the fuck out of China. It is becoming less credible to throw our hands up and say "China has all the silicon manufacturing, guess we have to put up with it!" - this is national security, both directly via hardware in the DoD and through our economic stability. Saying "Well the Chinese companies are different" or "It's just rogue employees" or "We just have to accept it" is not good enough. We need a li…

How do you know that the DoD/CIA isn't behind this?

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're starting to realize that not all cultures are that great. That's sounding pretty racist

Only to the extent that the relationship between race and culture is causative rather than correlative. If forced at gunpoint to trust one person in my supply chain, I would instantly choose the Taiwanese-American in San Jose over the mainland-Chinese in Shenzhen, every time. Likewise, I think exactly the same Indian employee will be more productive if physically transplanted to Silicon Valley and surrounded by assim…

I certainly like Chinese government a lot more after living in America for a few years, getting more aware of what a shit show American government is, and how much bullshit there are in American culture.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#683
post #272

It's been a few years I've given up on the idea of privacy with technology. The number of security flaws that get discovered daily is only the tip of the iceberg. I'm pretty sure some governments (or organizations) have had backdoors, be they hardware or software, in place for more than 20 years. We simply don't know about it yet (and probably never will). Would that actually be that far-fetched? I think not sadly. E…

The more I understand software the less I trust it (given the current state of engineering practices). Meanwhile all my friends/family are scrambling to install all the latest new "smart home" gadgets and I just look like a paranoid kook trying to talk them out of it.

You're definitely not a paranoid.

However, IMO, the "cost" of ignorance such area is not that bad either. I will let them live their way to be honest.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#684

Is there an article that describes a bit more in detail what the chips actually did (or were capable of doing)? They only say "the microchip altered the operating system’s core so it could accept modifications.", which I might interpret as circumventing signature checks to allow installing modified firmware on the systems? But how does the chip connect to the network and how does it receive commands? That said, it's…

This! I wish we had a more technical deep dive.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait a minute... So your company has a Chinese equipment supplier, finds out that the supplier is tampering with your purchased equipment, and your solution is to add criteria to the incoming inspection? No wonder China keeps screwing with you guys. You aren't supposed to eat that cost! Write a PO with tons of fine print that says "We will disassembly units at random for compliance inspection. Non compliant products…

There were other considerations like the fact we were actually buing it from large reputable company and what happened was that some employees were doing it with no involvement of the company. The fact is, doing any kind of hardware production in China, you have to be aware Chineese have different value system and you would not be suited doing any business if you throw tantrum at any sign of apparent dishonesty (assu…

Sounds like a libertarian oasis.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#686

This reminds me of that old story about the Xerox copy machines that the Soviet Union bought. Where each unit was planted with a image recorder. And for years, the American spy agencies had a great laugh, that they were able to intercept all the documents that the Russians made a copy of. Back then, this was an off-network infiltration. Where the copied images, were retrieved during regular servicing intervals by a X…

Like the IBM typewriters with keyloggers that the Russians planted on US diplomats during the 80s?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/information-tec...

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he's saying that his company knowingly allows a percentage of fraud, identity, and financial theft to occur against his customers' customers because there are enough layers of indirection where they (he and his bosses) probably can't be held personally responsible. Enough efforts (fancy tables with big receipts, etc) have been provided for coverage in case of a court case or media blitz but actually using a reputable…

I guess it's news to you that the financial sector and especially banks in fact do exactly that: https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-sec... But it doesn't stop with the cards. ATMs, Tax Fraud, ... almost all businesses within banks have to deal with fraud and there is some threshold that they just allow to happen.

knowing about it and willfully facilitating it are two different things

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait a minute... So your company has a Chinese equipment supplier, finds out that the supplier is tampering with your purchased equipment, and your solution is to add criteria to the incoming inspection? No wonder China keeps screwing with you guys. You aren't supposed to eat that cost! Write a PO with tons of fine print that says "We will disassembly units at random for compliance inspection. Non compliant products…

There were other considerations like the fact we were actually buing it from large reputable company and what happened was that some employees were doing it with no involvement of the company. The fact is, doing any kind of hardware production in China, you have to be aware Chineese have different value system and you would not be suited doing any business if you throw tantrum at any sign of apparent dishonesty (assu…

>If the company does screw you (like replacing components for something cheaper) they typically will not be thinking they are doing anything wrong. They are just testing if you notice and if you do not they will say it makes no difference for you but saves them costs.

They don't pass the savings to you so they know very well what they're doing, just playing fool to see if it slips.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#689

We need to get the fuck out of China. It is becoming less credible to throw our hands up and say "China has all the silicon manufacturing, guess we have to put up with it!" - this is national security, both directly via hardware in the DoD and through our economic stability. Saying "Well the Chinese companies are different" or "It's just rogue employees" or "We just have to accept it" is not good enough. We need a li…

How do you know that the DoD/CIA isn't behind this?

Because it came from Chinese manufacturers. Did you read the article?

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Altering components to something cheaper is common practice for every company that is willing to exploit the fuck out of their customers. Look at the food industry. In EU there is control, in US thare are sanctions. But it is up to the governments because companies are to opportunistic to change. As long you can (re)sell the junk you get, you're fine, if you can't you upgrade "QA".

Both the EU and US have internal controls on food quality and sanctions. Contrary to the impression your post gives, the EU has much more "sanctions" against food (esp. imports) than the US does, and is generally taxing much heavier and restricting many more things. Importing essentially any milk product into the EU is only possible on an exception basis. Trump has a LOT more work before extra sanctions in the US wil…

"generally absolutely ridiculous"

Did you look at the map? It's nearly all things with a place name in the product name. For example, "Welsh Beef". Why is it reasonable for a consumer to buy Welsh Beef and for it to possibly have come from somewhere other than Wales?

It seems to me, more like generalising the concept of trademarks to place names rather than just company names and brand name.

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