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Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

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Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#681

Post by vidarh »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #634
jrimbault wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anarchists and communists have long been banned from entering the US. And I've noticed a strong push back against most of the more mild socialists ideas. The US have not been "the land of the free" for a long time. And I will argue that communism is fundamentally a good ideology. While fascism has never leaned on the good side of human nature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954 https://en.wik…

To be fair, anarchists didn't exactly make anyone their friends from the late 1800s forward. There was an incredible amount of political violence at the time. Russia saw tens of millions murdered because the anarchists and communists (of that day) got exactly what they wanted in the overthrow of the old regime. It's weird how communism and fascism seem to appear out of the ether together and fight with each other. Ho…

The anarchists in Russia, and a substantial proportion of the communists fought against the Bolshevik coup, and most of them ended up murdered or in exile for it. Or both.

Trying to paint them all with one brush is ignorant.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#682

Post by PeterisP »

jrimbault wrote: post #666
fennecfoxen wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They won't politely tolerate you. Deviants will be chastised, expelled/expatriated, jailed, or killed. If they have the power to? Yeah, in a heartbeat. But they're not the only ones, or the most powerful ones, just the most ostentatiously intolerant. > 1. Folks will gladly loan the hangman the rope that he will use to hang you, your family, and your neighbors — all because of "purity of belief" in free speech. If b…

>If both Nazis and (as an example) Communists have free speech That's where the argument become null, communists ideas have been banned from the US political landscape for a long time and even mild socialists propositions are a call for arms for many USians.

They aren't banned in any sense whatsoever - there's a communist party in USA, they're free to publish their views, do rallies, advocate their position, run for elections, and they're "banned" only in the sense that almost noone votes for them or supports their views.

That's the exact treatment that Nazis, ISIS, North American Man/Boy Love Association and all kinds of other disgusting groups should get - they should be free to associate and state their views publicly, so that the public can hear them, be disgusted, and vote against them. If some of them do violent acts or incite violence, then those particular people can and should be charged appropriately, but not the rest of the group.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#683

Post by vidarh »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #615
Akujin wrote: post #573

We take down Al Qaeda terrorist websites all the time because they can be used to radicalize people. Nazis are no different. They are calling for the systematic violent overthrow of the US government and for the extermination of many millions of so called undesirables. This is a terrorist threat. I take this threat very seriously as do many people in the Jewish, Hispanic, and African American community. There are lit…

The last sentence is the main reason why the world is so fucked up today. "Unless you agree with my radical leftist agenda you are a nazi/racist/ "-mentality and the complete unreasonability of the left is the reason why normal people are fed up with all this crap and are voting for Trump, Brexit etc. No matter how evil some group is (may they be pedophiles, satan worshippers, nazis, whatever...) silencing them and a…

As a "radical leftist", it's certainly not on my agenda, and in fact I hold views that they'd likely denounce.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#684

Post by supremesaboteur »

steve_musk wrote: post #609
aaron-lebo wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get out of here with the crying wolf. Sorry, hate to break it to you, but these illiberal forces are a clear and present danger to this comfortable society you call home. No, it's the last gasps of a dying breed of racists, empowered by the Internet and that look a lot more popular than they are due to media focus. Nazis are lame, but you leave them alone and there's nothing to fuel the fire. You send out counterprot…

"No, it's the last gasps of a dying breed of racists, empowered by the Internet and that look a lot more popular than they are due to media focus." Really? Because yesterday the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES defended white nationalists and neo-nazis on national TV. This discussion also shouldn't have much to do with free speech. If private companies do not want to allow pro-nazi websites to use their servers, they s…

> Because yesterday the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES defended white nationalists and neo-nazis on national TV

No, he reiterated his condemnation of them multiple times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s5Mp2Ge3Wg&feature=youtu.be...

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#685

Post by pitay »

mozumder wrote: post #655
illuminati1911 wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last sentence is the main reason why the world is so fucked up today. "Unless you agree with my radical leftist agenda you are a nazi/racist/ "-mentality and the complete unreasonability of the left is the reason why normal people are fed up with all this crap and are voting for Trump, Brexit etc. No matter how evil some group is (may they be pedophiles, satan worshippers, nazis, whatever...) silencing them and a…

It seems people have no idea that Nazis are actually extremely violent people. I'm not talking about your average racist, but people that identify with the Nazi party. Violence is central to their philosophy. If you actually met any modern-day Nazis, you would know this. It took me about two days of hanging out with Nazis before they literally tried to blow me up. This isn't some free-speech issue where you debate po…

A couple of things:

1. I was watching the news and in a picture I noticed one of the counter protesters using some sort of spray can as a flamethrower. I also saw the counter protesters beating up a spokesman for the protesters before the police saved him. So violence goes all around.

2. Arresting people just because someone like the parent here calls them violent is a really bad idea. As in, it's horrendous. If all someone has to do is call you violent to have you arrested, then boy can it be used to silence people that say things inconvenient to whoever wants to silence them. Saying "arrest their member" about a political group is extreme, ignores any legal precepts of innocent until proven guilty, and can be used by the most authoritarian groups to silence anyone they choose.

That said I do find protesters very unlikable. The counter protesters I have found a little bit more likeable but still unlikable, because they seem somewhat hypocritical and dishonest, given they have been somewhat violent as well, and have said that it doesn't matter that they were violent as well.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#686

Post by y7 »

derefr wrote: post #347
y7 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in a way much worse than if they actually changed their policy. With this precedent, it looks like what they're saying now is "we're not policing content, except for when our CEO feels like it". Basically this is a clear act of corruption, given their own proclaimed principles of content neutrality. That the ultimate trigger seems to have been that the removed site said something negative about CloudFlare is…

Is it corruption when a governor issues a pardon, or a president vetoes a bill? The point of an Executive is to be able to do act-utilitarian evaluations of context, while the organization itself is stuck following rule-utilitarianism.

Well, when a president convicts someone to a prison sentence because they said the president is a nazi, I'm pretty sure most people would call that corruption (if he bypasses the courts and written laws).

I agree not all principles can be effectively codified into rules, and sometimes exceptions are needed, but I do think the exceptions need to be in line with the bigger principles and ethical standards themselves. However I do not think this is the case here. It seems like a clear case of content policing, because the CEO did not like what the Daily Stormer had to say about him or his company.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#689

Post by darpa_escapee »

jmnicolas wrote: post #649
imbur wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daily stormer, pol, and breitbart are all free to find another web host/CDN or start their own. There is no slippery slope with one business refusing to do business with another one. The business does not need to be accountable to anyone, because they have no requirement to host the daily stormer in the first place.

So a baker could refuse to make a cake for homosexuals then ?

What's with everyone bending over backwards to equate Nazis with non-genocidal, non-terrorist groups of people?

Given the chance, gay people will try to live their lives in peace.

Given the chance, Nazis will try to exterminate billions of people.

Nazis haven't been systematically persecuted and killed for millennia. Ironically, gay people have been systematically persecuted and murdered by Nazis. Such persecution is why there are protected classes, which some governments recognize gay people as belonging to.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#690

Post by vidarh »

contrast wrote: post #621
fennecfoxen wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They won't politely tolerate you. Deviants will be chastised, expelled/expatriated, jailed, or killed. If they have the power to? Yeah, in a heartbeat. But they're not the only ones, or the most powerful ones, just the most ostentatiously intolerant. > 1. Folks will gladly loan the hangman the rope that he will use to hang you, your family, and your neighbors — all because of "purity of belief" in free speech. If b…

A white supremacist killed someone at the weekend for protesting. If their free speech gives you supreme confidence , then you are simply wrong. The evidence is fresh. You will have free speech - as long as you only go to the right places, say the right things, wear the right clothes, have the right colour skin. Over time, supremacist movements reduce that free space in greater and greater amounts. This is what the e…

> A white supremacist killed someone at the weekend for protesting. If their free speech gives you supreme confidence, then you are simply wrong.

Let's ban Christian websites then. Christians have killed lots of people over political and moral issues. Of course not those specific Christians, but who ares.

That is whould shold be careful about how ware ou go with cenrsorship.

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