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The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

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Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually he hasn't made it hard for his team to work with him. Rather, they choose to make it hard for themselves to work with him, because they believe his views on politics and gender science make him a "bad person" who must be shunned to teach him a lesson. The world is full of religious people, Trump supporters, conservatives, and people who agree that men and women are biologically different and that might affec…

oh please... how he acts is their fault? are you serious? if he was a white-supremacist who wrote a scientifically-backed manifesto about biological differences with his black coworkers, would you still be blaming the people who are 'shunning' him?

> oh please... how he acts is their fault? are you serious?

No, how they act is their fault.

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#682
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we should be able to measure the negative impact, no?", or "how to get fired from Google in 20s" ... as the memo just proved ... Management could have put him in charge of gathering and analyzing data to prove or disprove his memo. They fired him instead => they don't care about data => the memo was right, management is biased

That's hardly a good option. Google hired him as an engineer, to work with his team and build things. With this manifesto, he's made it very hard for his team to work with him, and alienated at least a third of his colleagues. Why would Google want to keep around an engineer in that situation? The firing is justified from the point of view of the company, they want someone that can contribute, and he's just effective…

>he ... alienated at least a third of his colleagues

Do you have data to validate this claim?

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't we, in effect, have scenario 2? There are way more men compared to women who study computer science/engineering. Where I studied, only 4% were women. I'm not sure, especially for a company like Google, I would assume they get plenty of great candidates of either gender such that hiring from either pool would not require reducing their hiring standards. > I don't think the argument ever was that unqualified ca…

But Google (or any company) would want to hire the "best" candidates over "qualified" candidates wouldn't they? Is it best for Google and/or society if Google skips out on the best to only hire qualified people just because they are shooting for arbitrary group ratios? Did he really go "much further than [asking the question]"? Sure he comes from a particular political perspective. But will we condemn him for a coupl…

> But Google (or any company) would want to hire the "best" candidates over "qualified" candidates wouldn't they?

How exactly do we quantify the difference between "best" and "qualified" and is Google's hiring process granular enough to tell the difference? If a candidate goes through the interview process and the company decides "yes, this person is worth hiring" do you then stop and say "well, this person is qualified, but we're not sure if they are the best, so let's wait and see if someone better comes along"? I'm sure every company wants to hire the "best" candidates but what exactly does that mean and how exactly would that translate to their hiring process?

Besides, it's an open question as to whether or not Google's CS-puzzle-gauntlet interview process is actually effective at hiring the "best" candidates in the first place. But that's an entirely different discussion...

> Is it best for Google and/or society if Google skips out on the best to only hire qualified people just because they are shooting for arbitrary group ratios?

Probably not. Do you think that is what is happening here? That Google's diversity programs are actually causing Google to hire "worse" candidates than they would otherwise?

> Did he really go "much further than [asking the question]"?

He spends several pages trying to justify the status quo with regards to the gender gap in the tech industry, and then calls for the elimination of Google's hiring programs designed to encourage diversity. So... yeah.

I will also point out this particular quote because it is incredibly condescending and makes me suspect the memo was not necessarily written in good faith:

"Once we acknowledge that not all differences are socially constructed or due to discrimination, we open our eyes to a more accurate view of the human condition which is necessary if we actually want to solve problems."

The first part is an obvious strawman that mischaracterizes the opposing viewpoint, I don't think many people would actually agree that "all differences are socially constructed or due to discrimination". Then the second part implies the opposition is blind to the truth that he clearly sees, and furthermore is not capable of actually solving problems. I'm not sure how you could read this and conclude that he's "just asking questions".

> What would all those heavily criticizing him on the basis of not toeing the company line say if an equivalent "reverse" situation had occurred with a right-leaning corp and a left-leaning employee? I think most would feel the same way as right-leaners.

I don't think so. The last time I can recall that a right-leaning corporation fired an employee for expressing a left-leaning viewpoint was when Tomi Lahren was fired from The Blaze for saying she was pro-abortion, and I don't recall there being any backlash to that. These are private corporations, they can hire and fire who they want. (Protected classes excepted, of course.)

Re: The Google memo isn’t sexist or anti-diversity, it’s science

#684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damore wanted to discuss a topic, and was fired after a vocal subclass reacted emotionally and called for his dismissal. I think you might be wrong regarding which subclass is more powerful. It certainly wasn't Damore's. The subclasses I refer to are not based on gender, but on opinion. If diversity based on superficial attributes is so important, why isn't diversity of opinion?

Diversity of perspective is important, but not of opinion. You want to build strong opinions using many different perspectives. Random opinions are not interesting nor useful. Should Google start hiring more flat Earthers too?

If they are good at their job, sure, why not? Ironically, I doubt anybody would have been fired had they argued that the Earth is flat.

Also, I'm not sure what you're getting at with the distinction between perspective and opinion. Regardless of whether you think Damore presented opinion or perspective, it surely wasn't random.

To reiterate my previous point: considering how things played out, it's obvious that the subclass that you called 'less powerful' is actually quite powerful.

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