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Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

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Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#681

Post by mehwoot »

peterwwillis wrote: post #535
mehwoot wrote: post #243

Reading the letter, what surprised me was how political it was, framing everything as a "left vs right" cultural fight. I think if it was up to me I'd probably fire anybody on either side of that debate who started circulating shit like this. As soon as you're on that level, nothing good is going to come of it and you're just going to make a lot of people angry, which is very bad for the business in a lot of differen…

You would fire anyone who voiced any political view? Regardless of being correct? What kind of managerial strategy is that?

The sort of strategy that enforces existing, useful social norms in my country. Nobody in any company I have ever worked at has done anything like this. If anybody ever said "the Marxist intellectuals transitioned from class warfare to gender and race politics" as part of a justification for changing a company policy I would immediately a) tell them they are out of line and b) report them if they continued. It's rude and counter productive in so many ways.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#682

Post by elgenie »

lettergram wrote: post #143

What's crazy, if these roles were reversed... the ACLU would be all over it.

The ACLU claim to be non-partisan and crucially actually put their money where their mouth is. The ACLU has defended:

• The KKK (https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-em-defends-kkks-right-free-sp...)

• Neo-Nazis (https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history-taking-stand-free-sp...), something their history page refers to as "our finest hour"

• Milo Yiannopoulos (http://www.npr.org/2017/02/12/514785623/the-aclu-explains-wh...)

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#683

Post by redditmigrant »

cm2187 wrote: post #660
mehwoot wrote: post #243

Reading the letter, what surprised me was how political it was, framing everything as a "left vs right" cultural fight. I think if it was up to me I'd probably fire anybody on either side of that debate who started circulating shit like this. As soon as you're on that level, nothing good is going to come of it and you're just going to make a lot of people angry, which is very bad for the business in a lot of differen…

I sort of agree. I am personally in favour of a sterile workplace. No political talk, no baby talk, leave all that stuff at home or for your friends and focus on the task at hand. But that's not what he got sacked for. From what I understand the guy claims he was sacked for "perpetuating gender stereotype". If that's the case, he wasn't sacked for discussing politics, he was sacked for expressing the wrong political…

His opinion was, "exclude these other people" because they are not likely to be good at it just because of they were when they were born. So I have no sympathy for him, he got excluded for being exclusionary. and I hope he further gets excluded from any good jobs. Then he will realize the consequence of trying to exclude other people from a job.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#685

Post by dmode »

May be because I grew up in a third world country where we have to deal with real problems, like getting molested in public transport or gang raped while traveling back from work, I don't see the big deal here. Some guy who was full of himself and wrote a memo. Then he got canned from a business organization. End of story. Google is not here to settle political debates. Google is here to make money for it's share holders.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#686

Post by hjrnunes »

devrandomguy wrote: post #219

As a white man, I have concerns that my ethnic / gender group is being persecuted. How should I raise these issues for discussion, in a professional environment?

It's funny how utterly incapable most are to actually directly and specifically answer your question.

- I have grievance X, how should I safely discuss it? - I can't possibly have grievance X!

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#687

Post by lawnchair_larry »

zouhair wrote: post #642
jorgemf wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If gender-based diversity programs are responsible for qualified women getting jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten due to bias, then the lack of that program means those women wouldn't have gotten those jobs. This is a double sword thing. With the program you might hire more qualified women, but also more less qualified women and you might prevent of hiring more qualified men. Because you have to hire wom…

>If I were I woman (or belong to minority) I would prefer to be being hired without any diversity program. Only someone who is not a woman or not from a minority could say this. People tend to dismiss other peoples problem or minimize them, even when those people are telling they are hurting.

Haha. Clearly you are not a woman. I've heard many, many women express this. Do you know how insulting it is to be a diversity hire?

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#688

Post by tzs »

padseeker wrote: post #373
devrandomguy wrote: post #219

As a white man, I have concerns that my ethnic / gender group is being persecuted. How should I raise these issues for discussion, in a professional environment?

The employees at Google are overwhelmingly white and male. According to this article Google employee makeup is as follows; -70% male/30% female -61% white / 30% Asian, 4% identifying as two or more races, 3% Hispanic, 2% black, and 1% other The tech industry is heavily male and majority Anglo (aka white), with a large Asian representation. I presume that if you are on on hacker news you work in the tech industry or w…

> The employees at Google are overwhelmingly white and male. According to this article Google employee makeup is as follows; -70% male/30% female -61% white / 30% Asian, 4% identifying as two or more races, 3% Hispanic, 2% black, and 1% other.

61% white is quite a bit lower than the white percentage in the general US population, so it's hard to see how Google is "overwhelmingly" white.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#689

Post by kkarakk »

clairity wrote: post #562

just reading quickly through the document (memo? manifesto? commentary?), it's obviously highly political, both in positional language and ideological couching. the author may believe he is being completely logical in his thinking, but it's full of post-hoc rationalization. * disappointed * should the guy have been fired? probably. it's political and divisive and disrupts the workplace. but he'll bounce back. it's no…

Mental associations do have weight and it does take significant effort to dispel negative associations.just like you could've just gone with selling crack on the corner but you had to throw in black for what i assume is a pretty obvious(to you) association of being black and selling crack and being rightfully fired.

this isn't an interesting point but i thought the idea that we needed more diversity in an industry that thrives on a diversity of ideas was also not an interesting point. yet here it is being debated hotly.

people don't see what they don't see

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#690

Post by josteink »

gopz wrote: post #662
tunesmith wrote: post #123

People can't seem to summarize his argument without getting much of it grossly wrong, because his manifesto was a haphazard collection of good points, bad points, good arguments, lousy arguments, misrepresentations of others' views, and unstated implications. A perfect recipe for people to argue past each other about it. It's worth remembering that one of his conclusions was to end or replace gender-based diversity p…

I would disagree. While he obviously sees the diversity programs as misguided, he stops short of calling for an end to them. To quote: > Have an open and honest discussion about the costs and benefits of our diversity programs. I understand that discussions within a business are different than talking with friends around the kitchen table, but I still think that you should go as far as you possibly can to have open d…

> > Have an open and honest discussion about the costs and benefits of our diversity programs.

To which the diversity proponents are quick to rally a mob and get the guy fired. Open and honest discussion indeed.

If you are so insecure in your ideological position that you can't even have a discussion about it without calling foul, I'd consider that the best possible sign that you actually need to have that discussion.

It's the only way to make sure that it's properly rooted and based on fact, and to legitimize it, and by proxy, the means you use to further it.

Sticking your head in the sand to avoid criticism will probably do the exact opposite, and sure as hell wont further your cause.

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