Fidel Castro has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#681

Post by sceew » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:07 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #25

He has certainly led one of the most exciting lives of our times... And despite his flaws (and/or crimes against humanity) I can't help but wonder how Cuba would have faired under different leadership. Looking at the next-island neighbors in Haiti, or any number of comparable African countries, it seems the Cubans got the better deal. Just one example: life expectancy is 15 years higher than Haiti, and actually even…

You are asking for racial theories to come out when you compare Cuba to Haiti. I would stay away from doing that.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#682

Post by pvaldes » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:09 PM UTC

sysk wrote: post #75

gragas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>with a superpower fixated on killing you (and ruining you economy) next door Look at how awful the quality of life in Cuba is today. Look at its people's lack of basic freedoms. Look at its awful economy. The US tried to save Cuba from itself.

I'm with you up until "the US tried to save Cuba from itself". Castro was an awful dictator but the US embargo not only didn't save Cuba from itself, it made things worse for ordinary Cuban citizens. I wouldn't be proud of it.

And a lot of people would argue that the most awful part of Cuba today is still the Guantanamo of Bush.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#683

Post by mynameisvlad » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:09 PM UTC

friendlygrammar wrote: post #527

ifdefdebug wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being a communist myself, I recognize this as utter anticommunist propaganda not based on facts but on believes.

Anticommunist propaganda? You realize that the man killed thousands, imprisoned tens of thousands for their beliefs and condemned the entire island to poverty. What is misleading about anything I've just stated? Because that is one of the requirements for something to be propaganda.

I think what the parent commenter is referring to is your insistence on staying on the same 4 or so talking points without actually listening to others and their opinions.

HN is a place for discussions. That means being open to people having ideas other than your own, and acknowledging that those ideas may have merit. You don't have to agree with them; I don't agree with everything said on HN. That said, you do have to be open to accepting that others have different viewpoints and that they're not crazy for doing so.

That's why there's policies in place for civil commenting, and the like. To foster a discussion between people with potentially opposing viewpoints without devolving into a personally-charged argument.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#684

Post by marknutter » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:14 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #656

cmbailey wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I agree that Fidel Castro made many mistakes and is responsible for many atrocities. But the plight of Cuba is not his doing alone. In American English, the phrase, "He murdered thousands," can't be followed by the word "but..."

Obama didn't murder thousands? Yet I hear good things about him. FDR? Any US president basically? The people responsible for staging coups abroad to replace democratically elected leaders, install sympathetic dictators and overall fuck up life in a region for 50 years? Yet I hear good things about them too. Why can't the same be applied to Fidel? He committed atrocities and he did good for the country. And indeed muc…

FDR and Obama murdered thousands of their own citizens? Jeeze, I need to brush up on my history...

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#685

Post by rgbrenner » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:15 PM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #676

fspear wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Castro is up there with the worst of the worst (Hitler, Pol pot, amin, mugabe, chavez, Kim Jong, Stalin, Mao, etc) these individuals resigned to their humanity the moment they decided to step all over their citizen's rights and dignity for their own benefit. Please stop trying to humanize him.

Interesting that Pinochet wasn't named still here.

I think he's included under "etc"

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#686

Post by CWuestefeld » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:16 PM UTC

quonn wrote: post #458

macspoofing wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also Socialism, Communism, Marxism are just the packaging. That's like saying modern terrorism as practiced by groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS has nothing to do with a particular interpretation of Islam, but is rather just a response to colonialism and foreign interference in middle eastern countries, etc. There was an ideological basis to the Cuban revolution that tapped into a existing global Marxist ideology. 'Pack…

I don't think this is accurate. I can't point to a source right now, but I have read a lot about the revolution in the last decade and my impression was that some of the revolutionaries were Marxists, but there was no official ideology and Cuba became Marxist perhaps a year after the revolution. This involved a power struggle and some revolutionaries emigrated or went to prison. Castro eventually sided with the commu…

Che wasn't a communist either. He was just a nasty guy who wanted to stir up trouble and enjoy some ultraviolence.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#687

Post by nec4b » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:18 PM UTC

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #618

nec4b wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the times when they were standing in line for toilet paper and bread or the times when millions of Ukrainians died from hunger.

Oh right, and the United States has never had poverty.

Where have I said that?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#688

Post by IslaDeEncanta » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:19 PM UTC

Jenya_ wrote: post #369

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia still has not regained the standard of living that existed during the USSR.

I do not agree, oil wealth moved Russia miles ahead of 80s USSR experience (I see this first-hand).

Economic data disagrees with your personal experience.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#689

Post by ramonvillasante » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

dictators and dictatorships are failures to avoid, period.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#690

Post by 50CNT » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 7:27 PM UTC

kekimo wrote: post #317

50CNT wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though socially frowned upon, you could make the same argument substituting Stalin or Hitler, and it'd still make sense. Matter of fact, Germans regularly do. "Never again" requires you to view what happened objectively. If you viewed Hitler as a bogeyman, an anomaly, it becomes easy to argue that it won't happen again, but letting your guard down is precisely what will let it happen again. Because "Class Warfare", "…

This is false, the Germans didn't learn anything at all from WWIII. If they did learn anything, they learned the wrong lessons. Germans learned that one shouldn't wage war, that there is no such thing as 'better' cultures or societies, that one should under no circumstances label any group, that one must be tolerant towards anyone at all cost. What do Germans do then, once we start talking about cultures where infant…

Whilst I agree to a degree that the pendulum sometimes swings too far in the other direction in German political discourse, the attitude of "us versus them" is rarely useful.

Say we took a culture legitimizing rape, how about Saudi Arabia due to persecution of Women reporting rape under extra-marital sex laws. We could brand them as "the enemy" and sit there in righteous indignation, but this accomplishes precisely nothing in changing the culture. Worse yet, due to our adversarial stance, we risk alienating Arabs that agree with out views on the issue, ones that could help us shape attitudes and laws in their home country.

The lack of tolerance of the opinions of "the other side" permeates far further than that. What does one accomplish when one calls a Republican who is worried about immigration a racist? At best you upset him, at worst you elect Trump. Or you sit down with him, listen to his worries, and work together to step closer to the truth.

Now the last thing you mention, ostracizing people that lean further right in Germany, I agree with you, that is a knee jerk reaction, and harmful. Again, if someone has an extreme opinion, we should try to understand how they arrived at said opinion, weigh its merits and suss out its holes. That is in a sense, also an issue of lack of tolerance.