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Hyperloop

spacex.com

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Re: Hyperloop

#671

Post by aphelion »

robomartin wrote: post #572

None of this is to say that Hyperloop is a bad idea. The idea sounds very interesting and I'd rather spend sixty billion building a Hyperloop --even if it fails-- than the ridiculous California high speed rail project. Cost is probably off by an order of magnitude, if not more. Why? Unions and other groups. Building anything in this country costs massively more (and takes significantly longer) than one could imagine…

This is all rather absurd given that the Western European nations that haven embarked on major infrastructure projects in recent decades tend to have higher rates of unionization as well as stronger labor and environmental regulations than the United States. That Europe has high-speed rail and the United States doesn't can hardly be chalked up to unions.

Re: Hyperloop

#672

Post by robomartin »

aasarava wrote: post #656
robomartin wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between theory on a piece of paper the the reality of building something. In the real world unions will be all over a project like this. Up every crevice. So will environmental groups and other special interest groups. None of this is good for any major civil engineering project. I asked a question in my post. Can you name any new major civil engineering project in the US in the last fifty years?…

Can you name any new major civil engineering project in the US in the last fifty years? New San Francisco Bay Bridge. (No, it's not a refurbish -- it's a completely separate bridge with a separate design to replace the existing Eastern span.)

This one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_span_replacement_of_the...

It only supports my point. It's 2.2 miles long. Construction started in 2002. It was supposed to open in 2007. It will not open until the end of this year. Total cost is currently at six billion.

The Hyperloop is 400 miles long, will be built in seven years and will cost six billion.

See my point now?

Re: Hyperloop

#673

Post by Centigonal »

jessriedel wrote: post #625
Turing_Machine wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if you perceived that as "nasty". The motor that it carries with it is about 146 horsepower. That's less than a Kawasaki Ninja street bike. The General Electric E60 locomotives currently in use on Amtrak crank out 6,250 hp (4,660 kW) and weigh 423,000 lb (192,000 kilograms). The weight of the tube doesn't really enter into it.

Flippant comments like "Did you actually read the PDF?" are exactly the kind of needless small escalations that destroys the tenor of commentary at HN. Any time you write that, you could be writing "It's discussed on page XX". If the comment doesn't deserve a cordial response, then just downvote and move along.

He responded to your points about the linked article. You went back to discussing why his language was out of line. Now you're destroying the tenor of commentary. Just append the etiquette suggestion to your previous post.

...now I'm contributing to this thread -- shoot!

Re: Hyperloop

#674

Post by jballanc »

A country like America in the '60s, '70s, or maybe even '80s would build this in a heartbeat.

A country like America today...who knows?

This plan has the perfect mix of reasonably practical yet slightly unsettlingly new and unfamiliar. It is just the sort of thing that meaningfully evolutionary changes are built on, like airliners or cross-country trains or steam-powered ships. If America builds this, great! If not, watch for which country does and move there post-haste!

Re: Hyperloop

#675

Post by robomartin »

aphelion wrote: post #671
robomartin wrote: post #572

None of this is to say that Hyperloop is a bad idea. The idea sounds very interesting and I'd rather spend sixty billion building a Hyperloop --even if it fails-- than the ridiculous California high speed rail project. Cost is probably off by an order of magnitude, if not more. Why? Unions and other groups. Building anything in this country costs massively more (and takes significantly longer) than one could imagine…

This is all rather absurd given that the Western European nations that haven embarked on major infrastructure projects in recent decades tend to have higher rates of unionization as well as stronger labor and environmental regulations than the United States. That Europe has high-speed rail and the United States doesn't can hardly be chalked up to unions.

European unions do not behave as American unions do. They seem to know how to balance their wants with the idea of allowing their host to survive, grow and succeed. American unions tend to extract as much blood as possible out of their hosts. They are really selfish, to the point of causing terminal damage. Look at the cities they've killed off.

Re: Hyperloop

#677

Post by LockeWatts »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #509
pbreit wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government loan was hardly free. Not only did it incur interest, there was an equity component that nearly kicked in had Tesla not had sufficient funds to pay off the loan early.

Right. If Tesla failed, the people own a worthless company. If it succeeds, Musk retains his stake in a valuable company. Compare what would have happened if Tesla needed to raise $500m from private investment at the start. Musk would have been diluted up front.

You're still missing the part where it incurred interest, so it wasn't free in the least.

Re: Hyperloop

#678

Post by bathat »

mjn wrote: post #475
pbreit wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, the number above is $70b and the TGV was built 30+ years ago so you could at least double that number based on inflation.

Even the most expensive TGV lines, have a per-km cost of around $20m/km in present dollars, and that's high enough to cause controversy. The bulk of the network was built for prices of $2-4m/km at the time, which is about $3-5.5m/km if you adjust for inflation. For a 700-km line like SF-LA, even the $20m outlier cost would work out to only $14 billion. Where's the 8x multiplier coming from? No TGV line has cost >$100…

France probably doesn't tie both its rail agency's hands behind its back with pointless environmental impact reports (the sole purpose of which seems to be to generate extra revenue for civil engineering contractors) and then let NIMBYs sue because this or that insignificant detail wasn't included.

Re: Hyperloop

#679

Post by jessriedel »

Centigonal wrote: post #673
jessriedel wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flippant comments like "Did you actually read the PDF?" are exactly the kind of needless small escalations that destroys the tenor of commentary at HN. Any time you write that, you could be writing "It's discussed on page XX". If the comment doesn't deserve a cordial response, then just downvote and move along.

He responded to your points about the linked article. You went back to discussing why his language was out of line. Now you're destroying the tenor of commentary. Just append the etiquette suggestion to your previous post. ...now I'm contributing to this thread -- shoot!

You can't edit a comment that's more than an hour or so old. Reasonable people can have disagreement about the ground rules for online discussions, and it's helpful to get everyone in the same page in a constructive way.

Re: Hyperloop

#680

Post by VladRussian2 »

jarek wrote: post #670
VladRussian2 wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it describes his last salary, so if you know the formula, 3% at 55, and his years of service - 31 - stated in the article, it also allows to calculate his pension - 180K+

So what you're saying is that their pensions aren't "200-300K/year"?

if you look at the original link (http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/pensions), you'll see these "3% @ 60 Formula for Local Miscellaneous Members", "2% @ 55 State and School Miscellaneous" and "3% @ 55 Formula for State Peace Officer/Firefighter or Local Safety Member" - these formulas are mainly from union contracts.
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