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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#671

Post by Rury »

bko wrote: post #660
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

Does it really say something? If so what? I think the assumption that suppliers are always just catering to whatever the market demands is dubious at best. In uncompetitive markets with strong moats and price inelasticity, there's no need to cater the demands of market, the market must cater to the supplier's demands. And since markets tend to collapse into a few main stakeholders, markets eventually end up this way, rather than the assumed way.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#674

Post by spiralpolitik »

chrisjj wrote: post #649
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

> I can use 40+ year old cameras Apple winces.

Nah, they'll just make the battery an external MagSafe accessory like the Air.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#675

Post by virtualritz »

jpollock wrote: post #653
virtualritz wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what replacable has to do with thickness. When I bought my first smartpone, a Moto G (1st gen) it was as flat as any phone most people carried around at the time (2014, I think). And the battery was replaceable. I think also Samsung phones had replaceable batteries then. And this was the case for a few years after. Until it wasn't. Devices didn't suddenly get thin when batteries were glued in. Why would they…

A replaceable battery needs protection. One in the device gets protection from the device.

The replaceable battery is still inside the case. How is it more protected because "glue"?

I also replaced glued batteries in phones following ifixit instructions a few times (using a hair dryer/heat gun).

They didn't have any less or more "protection" than the replaceable ones. They looked exactly the same apart from the connectors ofc.

Please substantiate your claim. Until then I call it BS.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#676

Post by cataphract »

bko wrote: post #669
cataphract wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the objective is to make it a "superior product" in the somewhat circular way you're defining it (i.e., the market equilibrium that we settled on). It's one of several measures to try to have people keep their phones for longer and cut e-waste.

Slow down innovation is certainly one way to have people keep their phones longer and cut e-waste. Imagine if they allowed air conditioners...

Do you think fuel efficiency or emission standards "slowed down innovation"? They brought a huge amount of innovation: lighter materials, better aerodynamics, higher compression ratios, direct injection, better mixture control, etc.

There will still be innovation; the solutions will just have satisfy the new parameters.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#677

Post by neves »

ghshephard wrote: post #662
kennywinker wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I’m confused why people say they want a thinner phone while carrying a phone that’s keeps getting larger every model. When was the last time you kept a phone longer than 2-3 years? That’d explain why you haven’t had one die. Assuming you do get a new phone regularly, easy battery replacement will probably help the resale value of your own a fair bit - the labour cost of a battery replacement is priced into…

My average time on a smartphone is now at 4 years, feels like it's going to 5 pretty soon. [Last upgrade was for USB-C. Next upgrade will be for on-device LLM. It's wild how approximately 0% of what Apple has done outside of the USB-C connector has mattered to me in the last 10+ years - low-light photography is probably the only other thing that comes to mind. ] I've had two battery replacements since 2015. One of th…

Note that your 2 best features were usb-c and replacement batteries. Both were government mandated against unethical behavior of Apple.

That's what governments are for.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#678

Post by mhandley »

Alupis wrote: post #81
mentalgear wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't fall for the 'glue cuz of protection' myth - there are and had been water-resistant phones way before Apple started glueing to avoid customers doing their own repairs and them losing out on new sales.

Which phones? I ask as someone that's had to replace multiple phones after a trip through the washing machine. Modern phone water resistance is incredible. I've even seen people literally swim with their phones and not even question if it was a bad idea.

Back when replaceable batteries were the norm, I had two Blackberries that survived going through the washer and dryer.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#679

Post by userbinator »

rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

and you can’t even find anyone who will fit them for the older models.

I'm quite certain you can find many companies in the far East who will produce cells of exactly the size and shape you want, as long as you're willing to order a minimum quantity. There are also a few semi-standard sizes of prismatic cells available.

That said, having a few truly standard sizes like we had with 1.2/1.5V and 9V batteries would be a good idea. BL-5C and its variants were a de-facto standard for many years too, and apparently are still available new.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#680

Post by retired »

gf000 wrote: post #466
nicpottier wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think phone manufacturers will figure it out once it is a requirement. Was switching everyone to USB-C annoying for Apple? Sure. Are we in a better place because the EU forced it. You betcha. That's the point. I don't love everything the EU does (cookie banners!?) but this is one where I have confidence that the consumer will ultimately benefit. As others have noted, most people do not replace their phones every tw…

> Was switching everyone to USB-C annoying for Apple? Sure. Doubt. They have already switched over every other line they had. I believe it was more of a marketing stunt, they calculated that n% of customers will be upset with the change, so they waited for the EU ruling so now they can just point these n% to blame the EU who will take the blame instead of them.

Apple switched the iPhone to USB-C years before it became an EU requirement. I doubt the EU played a role in it. The 2015 MacBook was USB-C only.
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