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Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

wsj.com

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Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#671

Post by wombatpm »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #650
epolanski wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolutely absurd that we’re at this point. It's not really, this is the result of having a flawed democratic system. What do Turkey, Philippines, Russia, Belarus, Hungary, Nicaragua, etc and now US have all in common? They are ALL presidential or semi-presidential republics where a single person "rules" without needing to face opposition in a parliament nor even requiring support from its own party. Winner-takes-a…

> where a single person "rules" without needing to face opposition in a parliament nor even requiring support from its own party But that doesn't describe the US right now. The problem is that the GOP is providing at least enough support to enable the behavior that we currently see. If congress as a whole wanted to stop things they could. I actually quite like the US system but the combination of first past the post…

The founders never imagined a coequal branch of government voluntarily giving up its power.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#672

Post by DANmode »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #481
cvoss wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not pay the tariffs. You bore the cost of the tariffs. Those are not the same thing. The refund is due to the party that got the bill for the tariff and paid it-- the importer. What you paid for was for the business not to go bankrupt while this was occurring. If the business wants to refund you for that, they can choose to do so. But you are not owed a refund.

i personally paid, to UPS and DHL iirc, tariffs. so maybe i wasn’t actually directly billed the tariff as the importer, but i 100% paid it.

Now,

was it a tariff you paid,

or a carrier fee related to the tariff?

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#673

Post by dragonwriter »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #362
bickfordb wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest temporary tariffs are also likely illegal.

I thought those were on very solid ground commonly used by past administrations?

> I thought those were on very solid ground commonly used by past administrations

No, Section 122 tariffs have never been used prior to Trump turning to them after the Supreme Court decision striking down the IEEPA tariffs, and, the states suing the Administration argue, the explicit sole statutory purpose for which they were allowed in the 1974 law creating the power can only possible to exist under a fixed-exchange-rate monetary system, which the US has not had since 1976.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#674

Post by zuminator »

superxpro12 wrote: post #311
rootusrootus wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average family paid 1000 more last year due to tariffs. I definitely noticed things that jumped in price.

A large cap company I totally dont work at paid 4% of revenue in tariffs last year. Our bonuses were cut in half. I dont have visibility into our customer pricing. It is fucking obscene how stupid this tax is. And all for what? So billionaires can get a bit richer? How did this help us, like at all???

All this fuckery makes it hard to keep track of financial inflows and outflows, which in turn makes it easy to commit graft and corruption. Especially coupled with the forced retirement of those principled people formerly in bureaucratic positions, and the lack of consequences for lying and scheming on behalf of the kleptocracy.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#675

Post by dragonwriter »

DANmode wrote: post #672
laweijfmvo wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i personally paid, to UPS and DHL iirc, tariffs. so maybe i wasn’t actually directly billed the tariff as the importer, but i 100% paid it.

Now, was it a tariff you paid, or a carrier fee related to the tariff ?

Delivery companies act as tariff agents and collect tariffs for Customs and Border Protection, so, yes, if you were the importer of record on a delivery, it is quite likely that you paid the tariff via the delivery company.

These are likely to be refunded, because even if you were the purchaser of the product, you were the importer of record and paid the tariff, not a downstream buyer who paid an increased price because of the tariffs.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#676

Post by mullingitover »

QuantumNoodle wrote: post #639

Do I understand correctly, that these companies applying for refunds, likely passed the costs onto consumers who paid a higher price for goods. Now the companies will claw back their refunds from the gov AND keep the markup they charged consumers?

I keep hearing this logic, but is not like the companies asked for it.

The politicians did this. They could pass a law tomorrow forcing the companies to refund windfalls from the illegally levied taxes.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#677

Post by NewJazz »

sowbug wrote: post #669
gmd63 wrote: post #656

This is just the citizenry paying double tariffs. First, we bought the higher priced goods. Now, the companies are trying to take our tariff payments again, this time from the government, to "make up" for the tariff money that we had already paid them in the first place. What should happen is that $X of the budget should be put into escrow for the next administration to use after these criminals make their way out.

Maybe triple. (1) paid higher prices, (2) the government will issue debt to refund the tariffs to importers who we already reimbursed through higher prices, and then (3) Congress will use the extra debt from the refunds as justification for higher individual taxes to pay for the 2025 tax cuts for businesses.

And the supreme court is to blame for all of this because they decided to invalidate lower court injunctions, reasoning that there was no chance for "irreparable harm"... Yeah, right.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#678

Post by DANmode »

dragonwriter wrote: post #675
DANmode wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, was it a tariff you paid, or a carrier fee related to the tariff ?

Delivery companies act as tariff agents and collect tariffs for Customs and Border Protection, so, yes, if you were the importer of record on a delivery, it is quite likely that you paid the tariff via the delivery company. These are likely to be refunded, because even if you were the purchaser of the product, you were the importer of record and paid the tariff, not a downstream buyer who paid an increased price beca…

I’m one of the importers of record.

This should be interesting!

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#679

Post by userbinator »

trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

and from all of this they got only $130B ?

I wonder if your thoughts would be any different if they managed to get enough to actually pay off the deficit?

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