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The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

cnn.com

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Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#671

Post by m_ke »

johanvts wrote: post #644
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

Ukraine is a democracy with a legitimate leadership that was not planning to acquire nukes and has no history of planning to remove Russia from the map. To suggest that this attack on Iran is the same as the Russian invasion of Ukraine is very misguided.

You forgot the genocide they have going and the current attempt to starve Cuba into submission with their little "blockade"

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#672

Post by jraby3 »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #613
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

> And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I would argue that funding Axis of Resistance from Hezbollah to Houthis is aggression too. Let’s not pretend that IR minded their own business, and suddenly was under attack.

Not to mention all the numerous threats to wipe Israel off the map by Iran, Hez etc.

Let's not pretend Iran is innocent please. Or Hamas either.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#673

Post by thiagoharry »

ozgung wrote: post #599
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

I don't want to insult you but your president is a populist and a TV personality. He is not a policy maker, he is more like an actor. So your country went into war mode by changing the name of the Department of Defence to Department of War. This was not a cosmetic change. This means peace times are over and you are in war. Your government acts accordingly. Since you are still a democracy find those people who make yo…

I don't think the American people can change their country's policy oriented toward a constant state of war, aggression, and invasions of other countries under the current system. This is a constant state policy, regardless of the party or the president. So it can be said that the United States is not a democracy. Money and capital rule, not the people.This can only be changed by a fundamental shift that empowers people over capital.

Of course, I agree that Trump is worse because, by removing the mask of civility and attacking others without first bothering to create propaganda and a narrative about how it is for the greater good and justice, he made the plundering and crimes faster and more efficient.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#674

Post by watwut »

johanvts wrote: post #644
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

Ukraine is a democracy with a legitimate leadership that was not planning to acquire nukes and has no history of planning to remove Russia from the map. To suggest that this attack on Iran is the same as the Russian invasion of Ukraine is very misguided.

Ukraine got rid of nukes and it was massive collosal mistake. In alternative universe where they win and get territory back and get economy on track, they would be 100% warranted to get the nukes.

My point is, Ukraine war and the way it evolved shows that not having nukes is a bad position.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#675

Post by techblueberry »

Rover222 wrote: post #632
apexalpha wrote: post #211

While I have no love for the Iranian regime I fear this will end up like the 'liberation' of Iraq: A massive power vacuum in an unstable Islamic regime. What even is the plan here if the air assault fails? Boots on the ground? In Iran?

This shows a real ignorance about the true culture of Iran. It is not a Muslim culture. They want to install the son of the shah, and get back to pre-revolution culture. But liberals will be quick to tell them they don't know best, better to just keep the oppressive ayatollah in power.

Maybe this is correct? I want this to be correct. But American entanglements in the Middle East have often overestimated the size of the “they” you’re referring to. There are many “they’s” in Iran, some of whom have been trained over time to hate the US.

So like, I think this is the right choice, but Trump was elected by MAGA to avoid these kind of entanglements even when it was the right thing to do. In fact, I think “liberals” (not progressive) support this action more than many on the right.

Traditional left/right is not useful to understanding people’s support of our foreign policy in 2026 America. Tucker Carlson will hate this way more than Chuck Schumer.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#676

Post by watwut »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #518
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

Do Americans even read or care about Constitution anymore? Congress declares War. Even Bush sought out Congressional approval and had a resolution passed before invading Iraq. These guys are speed running the fascist playbook. Disregarding laws is one step.

> Do Americans even read or care about Constitution anymore?

Supreme court does not, so why should random Americans?

It is not like the high but malleable ideals in it mattered. Its only use is to be able to claim in abstract "we have these freedoms and protection" while the court system renders them void in practice.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#677

Post by HaloZero »

coffinbirth wrote: post #494

> Iranian media now report 40 killed and 48 students injured following the strike on a girls’ elementary school in Minab, as rescue and recovery efforts continue. Congrats America!

Easy, it was Israel that probably did it and it's been shown time and time again that they can do this without political fallout under the guise that the target was a hiding spot for the military assets of Iran (or Hamas in the case of Palestine bombing).

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#678

Post by doubletwoyou »

throwthrowuknow wrote: post #495
papaver-somnamb wrote: post #328

I recall someone (name escapes me at the moment) defining WW3 as ignition in 5 flashpoints between belligerent groupings: - Eastern Africa esp. Sudan, which we all nearly universally ignore - Israel Iran - Russia and a neighbor which we know today is Ukraine - Pakistan Afghanistan India - China Taiwan Plus Plus Attributes that distinguish WW3 from previous world wars were IIRC: Contained conflagration, short targeted…

Check your thinking. Korea currently has a DMZ dividing it from a war that never really ended and was fought to a stalemate. Their nuclear program didn’t result in military action because they currently have a gun to the head of every South Korean citizen and the backing of a large nuclear neighbour. Those are circumstances you can’t easily recreate elsewhere.

Adding to your point, Seoul is visible from North Korea, and vice-versa, and likely has enough conventional artillery aimed at it that even without nukes an invasion would be Very Bad for the Korean people.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#679

Post by Manuel_D »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #615
sega_sai wrote: post #363

The take home message from this is that the only way for any country to be secure is to have nuclear weapons.

Israel has nuclear weapons. Did it keep them safe?

Historically, Israelis have been much safer than most of their neighbors Oct. 7th notwithstanding.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#680

Post by JumpCrisscross »

readitalready wrote: post #670
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

The war started in 1948 by Europeans attempting to attack and invade Palestine to grab their land to build their mediterranean resort homes. The war never stopped. There was no surrender documents signed. The foreign invaders have always been in the state of war. It's why their colonial outposts are required to have bomb shelters. Not sure why you would consider October 7 an "insane horror" when the foreign invaders…

> war started in 1948

It's the Middle East. The birthplace of civilisation. Everyone can legitimately claim everyone else started every conflict in the region because war in Mesopotamia and the Levant literally predates history.

At the end of the day I believe in the primacy of the living. Crimes committed by and against those alive today are infinitely more imporant than those committed by and against their ancestors. I've seen folks take this shit back to King Herod and the Parthians, and it's not a bad historical argument. (The Romans intervened.) It's practically counterproductive, however, inasmuch as focussing on blame versus harm reduction and prevention is counterproductive in any conflict resolution.

One of the separations between the rich and peaceful and the poor and permanently warring is in capacities to forgive. Japan wouldn't be a better place if they committed terrorist attacks against their American occupiers, or decided that they needed blood for Nagasaki and Hiroshima. And Americans wouldn't be happier if we decided to lob a nuke at the British in WWII for burning down our White House in the War of 1812. (France didn't ultimately profit from the Treaty of Versailles.)

> Not sure why you would consider October 7 an "insane horror" when

No. Don't do this to yourself. I get the temptation. But it is the path to becoming a monster. October 7 was an insane horror. So were other things. Atrocities aren't signed; they don't cancel out, just accumulate.

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