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Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

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671–680 of 716 posts

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#671

I was wondering if it was because of heavy-handedness of the administration, but apparently: > The policy change is separate and unrelated to Anthropic’s discussions with the Pentagon, according to a source familiar with the matter. Their core argument is that if we have guardrails that others don't, they would be left behind in controlling the technology, and they are the "responsible ones." I honestly can't compreh…

I always enjoyed the Terminator movie series, but I always struggled to suspend my disbelief that any humans would give an AI such power without having the ability to override or pull the plug at multiple levels. How wrong I was. N.B. the time travel aspect also required suspension of disbelief, but somehow that was easier :-)

We are currently giving them similar power to the average human idiot because I figure they won't do much worse than those. Letting either launch nukes is different.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#672
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But a short line "AGI is possible, powerful and perilous" > At which point the question becomes: is it them who are deluded, or is it you? No one. It is always "possible". Ask me 20 years ago after watching a sci-fi movie and I'd say the same. Just like with software projects estimating time doesn't work reliably for R&D. We'll still get full self-driving electric cars and robots next year too. This applies every y…

> We'll still get full self-driving electric cars and robots next year too. I've taken a Waymo and it seemed pretty self driving.

Not that 1. Wink.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can never work out if the companies are deluded and truly believe they're about to create a singularity or just claiming they are to reassure investors/convince the public of their inevitability. You can never figure out if the people selling something are lying about it's capabilities, or if they've actually invented a new form of intelligence that can rival or surpass billions of years of evolution? I'd like to…

You missed the part where I said "truly believe". I'm not saying "maybe they've made it", I'm asking whether they are knowingly deceiving people or whether they have deluded themselves into believing what they are saying.

ah, apologies, I missed that part.

> I'm asking whether they are knowingly deceiving people or whether they have deluded themselves into believing what they are saying.

I'd bet it's both. Engineers/people making it, are drowning in the hype. Combined with the notion of how hard it is understand something when your salary, or your stock options are based on your lack of understanding. I suspect they care more about building the cool thing, than the nuance they're ignoring to make all the misleading or optimistic claims; whichever side you take depending on how much you actually believe of the inevitability... which look exactly like lies if you're not drinking the koolaid. But expected excitement when your life is all about this "magic"

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because it is. AI is powerful and AI is perilous. Those two aren't mutually exclusive. Those follow directly from the same premise. If AI tech goes very well, it can be the greatest invention of all human history. If AI tech goes very poorly, it can be the end of human history.

Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever. Since the design of machines is one of these intellectual activities, an ultraintelligent machine could design even better machines; there would then unquestionably be an 'intelligence explosion,' and the intelligence of man would be left far behind. Thus the first ultraintelligent m…

> Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man

The things this definition misses: First, 'intelligence' is a poorly defined and overly broad term. Second, machine intelligence is profoundly different than biological intelligence. Third, “surpassing humans” is not a single threshold event because machine and human intelligence are not only shaped differently, they're highly non-linear. LLMs are a particular class of possible machine intelligences which can be much more intelligent than humans on some dimensions and much less intelligent on others. Some of the gaps can be solved by scaling and brilliant engineering but others are fundamental to the nature of LLMs.

> an ultraintelligent machine could design even better machines

There is a huge leap between "surpass all the intellectual activities of any man" and "invent extraordinary breakthroughs and then reliably repeat that feat in a sequential, directed fashion in the exact way required to enable sustained iteration of substantial self-improvement across infinite generations in a runaway positive feedback loop". That's an ability no human or collective has ever come close to demonstrating even once, much less repeatedly. (hint: the hardest parts are "reliably repeat", "extraordinary breakthroughs" and "directed fashion"). A key, yet monumental, subtlety is that the self- improvements must not only be sustained and substantial but also exponentially amplify the self-improvement function itself by discovering novel breakthroughs which build coherently on one other - over and over and over.

The key unknown of the 'Foom Hypothesis' is categorical. What kind of 'difficult feat' this is? There are difficult feats humans haven't demonstrated like nuclear fusion, but in that example we at least have evidence from stellar fusion that it's possible. Then there are difficult feats like room-temp superconductors, which are not known to be possible but aren't ruled out. The 'Foom Hypothesis' is a third category of 'hard' which is conceptually coherent but could be physically blocked by asymptotic barriers, like faster-than-light travel under relativity.

Assuming Foom is like fusion - just a challenging engineering and scaling problem - is a category error. In reality, Foom requires superlinear, recursively amplifying cognitive returns—and we have no empirical evidence that such returns can exist for artificial or biological intelligences. The only prior we have for open‑ended intelligence improvement is biological evolution which shows extremely slow and unreliable sublinear returns at best. And even if unbounded self‑improvement is physically possible, it may be practically unachievable due to asymptotic barriers in the same way approaching light speed requires exponentially more energy.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The machines will. They will have nothing. Why would the machines let them keep any wealth? What would wealth even be in that scenario? Electricity I guess.

Because they control what the machines do. In a world without power drills where you have the only knowledge of how to make a power drill, you own the construction industry. The drills don't own the construction industry.

But why will the machines allow themselves to be controlled. They are "super intelligent" remember, in this imagined scenario.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because it is. AI is powerful and AI is perilous. Those two aren't mutually exclusive. Those follow directly from the same premise. If AI tech goes very well, it can be the greatest invention of all human history. If AI tech goes very poorly, it can be the end of human history.

Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever. Since the design of machines is one of these intellectual activities, an ultraintelligent machine could design even better machines; there would then unquestionably be an 'intelligence explosion,' and the intelligence of man would be left far behind. Thus the first ultraintelligent m…

It's the "no stopping it at this point" that always sticks out to me in these discussions. Why is there no stopping it, exactly? At this juncture these systems require massive physical infrastructure and loads of energy. It's possible to shut it all down. What's lacking is the political will.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Good's quote is pretty myopic, it assumes machines make better machines based on being "ultraintelligent" instead of learning from environment-action-outcome loop. It's the difference between "compute is all you need" and "compute+explorative feedback" is all you need. As if science and engineering comes from genius brains not from careful experiments.

At sufficient levels of intelligence, one can increasingly substitute it for the other things. Intelligence can be the difference between having to build 20 prototypes and building one that works first try, or having to run a series of 50 experiments and nailing it down with 5. The upper limit of human intelligence doesn't go high enough for something like "a man has designed an entire 5th gen fighter jet in his mind…

I like the substitution concept. What humans can do depends on the abstractions and the tools. One could picture just the shape of the jet and have a few ideas how to improve it further. If that is enough info for the tool it could be worthy of the label "designed by Jim".

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#678

I was wondering if it was because of heavy-handedness of the administration, but apparently: > The policy change is separate and unrelated to Anthropic’s discussions with the Pentagon, according to a source familiar with the matter. Their core argument is that if we have guardrails that others don't, they would be left behind in controlling the technology, and they are the "responsible ones." I honestly can't compreh…

90% of the people cancer kills are over 50. Old people who start believing everything they see on Facebook, but continue voting, with even greater confidence in their opinions. Old people who voted in Trump. Curing cancer would be just about the worst thing AI could do.

Unless Ai could cure the Flynn effect you are talking about, it result from the cultural evolution. Natural evolution is dumb unlike the one AI could create (I bet it will either destroy us or make us smarter)

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#679
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*To improve* mass surveillance and autonomous attack systems with no human in the loop. China and USA already had those kind of systems way before AI.

China is certainly lax, but the US doesn't allow autonomous ATTACK systems. For Attack systems it is always required that a human makes the judgement call when to attack. Or least it didn't until the current regime. The US does have autonomous defensive systems. I could be wrong though, can you post your evidence? The closest I could find is loitering munitions. Even so, a company shouldn't be forced to go against it…

Drone pilots don't get any info about their target, certainly not enough to make a judgement call. If they object (or burn out) someone else is put in the chair.

People are conscripted, they put on the uniform and become legitimate targets? It might as well be a robot doing the shooting. Same difference.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because it is. AI is powerful and AI is perilous. Those two aren't mutually exclusive. Those follow directly from the same premise. If AI tech goes very well, it can be the greatest invention of all human history. If AI tech goes very poorly, it can be the end of human history.

> If AI tech goes very poorly, it can be the end of human history. "Just unplug the goddamn thing!" Also consider if something is so bad it makes you wince or cringe, then your adversaries are prepared to use it.

You try to go and unplug it, and other humans shoot you full of holes for it.

LLMs of today are already economically important enough to warrant serious security.

Those aren't even AGI yet, let alone ASI. They aren't actively trying to make humans support their existence. They still get that by the virtue of being what they are.

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