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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#671

Post by asdf_snar »

bastawhiz wrote: post #265
asdf_snar wrote: post #261

I think I must be confused, but after reading many of the replies, I can't figure this out. Is the standard American perspective that one shouldn't have to show any form of identification to go through security, get on a plane, and travel anywhere within the United States? How does anyone associate your ticket to your identity?

We do have to show ID. But the federal government said it's not enough to use a normal state driver's license or passport. You need a special "Real ID" that's somehow allegedly better. Your old driver's license that you can pay for booze with, open a bank account with, and you know, drive with, isn't proof enough of who you are to ride on a plane. Edit: I should note that I have one. But lots of people don't, because…

I think this is where my confusion lies. It seems like many people are saying no ID of any kind -- passport, "real ID", driver's license, ... -- should be provided, period. So ostensibly a 10 year-old could show up at the airport and decide to travel on their own (and if we only ID "young-looking people" then we get into a similar discussion as to why one should always ask for proof of age when buying alcohol).

To be clear, I'm refraining from judgment on this (despite what the downvotes seem to suggest), I just want to make sure I'm understanding the distinction is not plain driver's license vs. Real ID. I don't like it very much that I have to show my ID (such as passport or European ID card) when I'm on a train in Switzerland. It seems like the majority perspective is that we shouldn't _at all_ be controlling the ID of people who get on a plane, and that's just interesting to me (it would force me to articulate what the difference is between a plane and a train ride).

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#672

Post by devilbunny »

freeopinion wrote: post #586
lazide wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation re: psychological safety becomes very apparent when you mention to foreigners how often guns accidentally make it through TSA in peoples bags - and get discovered on screening on the return flight. Saucers for eyes, saucers! Hah The reality is that screening raises the bar enough that most casuals won’t risk it unless they’re crazy, which is worth something, and makes most people feel comfy, which is al…

Here we are specifically discussing the gold star on a USA driver license. When there is already the whole TSA kwikset fiasco in place. The gold star indicates that a person provided some pieces of paper that may be fabricated to a very busy DMV clerk. This is somehow meant to prove they would never do anything malicious. Or... you could slip the TSA person a $50 and say "keep the change". Legally. There is no risk i…

> no risk in submitting false documents

Except the risk you'll miss your flight, which in most cases is the screw that is turned.

My wife and I both have RealID driver's licenses. She had to get a replacement, and apparently the machines used to print them for mailing out later (as opposed to going down to their office and getting a replacement in person) are just ever so slightly off - so her license won't scan. She was given a surprising amount of harassment on a flight not long ago over this matter. She got me to take a photograph of her passport and send it to her so she could show it on the return trip - where her license again failed to scan. This is a fairly well-documented problem. Reports from all over the country have it, and it always seems to be certain license printers that just fail.

So now she carries her Global Entry card, which is otherwise only used for access to the expedited line for land and sea border crossings but is a valid RealID in itself, for domestic flights. It scans correctly.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#673

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #214
rngfnby wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two." This is like the folks who say flying is more carbon friendly than driving. It's wrong, you're comparing a vehicle running cost with one passenger vs a full vehicle normalized by its capacity. No one flies 30 mi commutes. Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone.

> Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone. Is there a study on this? As I would have thought the opposite and would bet that the number driving alone is increasing as more people live alone.

Its intuitive, costs don’t scale to travel per family member when you drive from A to B like it does when you fly.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#674

Post by sigmoid10 »

morcus wrote: post #565
sigmoid10 wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he was doing that to get faster treatment at a hospital or even just a restaurant or something then I'd agree. But by doing it to get faster treatment at the TSA check he's literally doing everyone else a favour.

The argument is that if tricks like this were to become widespread, they may start requiring certified medical documentation (or other hurdles) for said faster treatment, making life even more annoying for people with genuine issues.

In that case would actually increase security, right? Ans with genuine medical issues it should be no problem to get the necessary documentation. Either way, the consumers win.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#675

Post by rkomorn »

scott_w wrote: post #669
rkomorn wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like even OP was confused about it so I guess it wasn't something to be made sense of.

Just to be clear: I understand the difference. What I couldn’t do was explain to someone who has no concept that customs are not a security check. Or that you don’t need customs for (effectively) internal flights. I suspect part of this is that in the UK, we don’t get many internal flights (beyond connections), so people don’t have an experience of just walking off a plane and out of the airport.

Yes, I meant you were confused about the nature of the comment/question (like you mentioned in a sibling response somewhere). :)

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#676

Post by jMyles »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #319
jMyles wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it's just a vote against the profiteers who make those machines. Also I kinda like the process better; the pat-down is nothin', and you can a full table to yourself to recombobulate. > First-Amendment-auditor thinking. Uhhh, I like that kind of thinking. Is there something wrong with first amendment auditors now?!

Perhaps I haven't gotten a representative sample, but in 100% of the content I've seen from self-described "first amendment auditors", they're acting unpleasant and suspicious for absolutely no reason other than provoking a reaction. To me this seems like antisocial behavior that degrades rather than supports First Amendment protections. I consider myself a pretty strong First Amendment supporter, but if I routinely…

> I consider myself a pretty strong First Amendment supporter, but if I routinely found strange men filming me as I walked down the street, I would support basically any legal change required to make them stop.

It strikes me that the first clause of this sentence and the last one are unambiguously contradictory.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#677

Post by sigmoid10 »

bz_bz_bz wrote: post #670
sigmoid10 wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he was doing that to get faster treatment at a hospital or even just a restaurant or something then I'd agree. But by doing it to get faster treatment at the TSA check he's literally doing everyone else a favour.

If they opted for a pat down for 6 years, then faster treatment clearly wasn’t the goal. Metal detector + swabbing is not faster than the scanner either.

Depends heavily on where you fly from. From the original comment it clearly seems that it does make it faster.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#678

Post by jMyles »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #279
jMyles wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it's just a vote against the profiteers who make those machines. Also I kinda like the process better; the pat-down is nothin', and you can a full table to yourself to recombobulate. > First-Amendment-auditor thinking. Uhhh, I like that kind of thinking. Is there something wrong with first amendment auditors now?!

First Amendment auditors have usually been attention seeking individuals making click bait YouTube videos. It's been interesting seeing the transformation from that to what we're seeing with people monitoring ICE.

To be honest, I watch very little of that content, so I had no idea. If they're unkind, then obviously that sucks.

But walking around with cameras maintaining the unequivocal right to record what happens in the commons seems like a very important and thankless task.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#679

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

kube-system wrote: post #122
t-3 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying domestically is usually cheaper than driving once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two. Also, RealID isn't fully permeated yet - my state won't fully phase out non-RealIDs until 2029.

For a single person going between two major metro areas, for sure. But a lot of the working poor have families and travel to/from places that aren't major metro areas, and this can change the math really fast.

And even if there is an airport, it costs a lot more to fly into a small captive airport. For instance my parents live in South GA where the local airport has three commercial flights a day all on Delta and all fly to and from ATL

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#680

Post by 0x457 »

nobody9999 wrote: post #458
0x457 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to believe it, but if you already have a passport - you don't need Real ID (in ideal world). I only got Real ID because I want to have zero questions about my immigration status.

>You're not going to believe it, but if you already have a passport - you don't need Real ID (in ideal world). I only got Real ID because I want to have zero questions about my immigration status. DHS says they don't consider RealID to be reliable "proof" of immigration status[0][1], so you might consider rethinking that strategy. [0] https://www.biometricupdate.com/202601/dhs-agent-tells-court... [1] https://storage…

> DHS says they don't consider RealID to be reliable "proof" of immigration status[0][1], so you might consider rethinking that strategy.

I did, I became American and now have a US passport. That is just moving of the goal post by current admin.

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