Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

671–680 of 729 posts

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#671

Post by pyrale »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #414
pyrale wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the only ways we can get serious Euroclouds is some combination of Just mandate EU countries' public administration to rely exclusively on EU cloud solutions. That doesn't need to be done at once. This would create enough of a captive market to start the homegrown industry. > Europeans have to use lower-level infra and do a lot more ops in-house To be honest, every large enough company would benefit from do…

> Just mandate EU countries' public administration to rely exclusively on EU cloud solutions. This happens already in some areas and it is not cheaper or better. The EU funds national clouds where public institutions use them. What does it mean? VMware with Tanzu or OpenStack. And then some services thrown in to offer some S3 like buckets and that's it. The rest has to be built by the beneficiaries. Servers? Brand na…

> This happens already in some areas and it is not cheaper or better.

The goal is not for it to be cheaper or better. The goal is to have money spent on domestic actors. Will some of them provide a dogshit service? Sure. Just like it happened in the US. Time will sort things out.

> What does it mean? VMware with Tanzu or OpenStack. And then some services thrown in to offer some S3 like buckets and that's it. The rest has to be built by the beneficiaries. Servers? Brand names like Lenovo/HP/Dell. Storage? Brand names like NetApp, HP, Dell, Lenovo, 3Par, IBM and the list goes on. Networking? Cisco (mostly), HP/Juniper. Firewalls? Cisco/Fortinet/PaloAlto/CheckPoint/etc.

You need to cut this purity bullshit where Europe must own all the stack from the foundry, or do nothing. What you're building is an unwinnable battle.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#672

Post by GoblinSlayer »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #663
hilbert42 wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to 'attack' Russia is to undermine its economic and political systems then let unrest amongst its citizenry do the dirty work. 1917 showed Russia's proletariat was very effective at achieving regime change.

How do you undermine the economic and political system of a country? The economic one can be undermined by sanctions, and they happened only because the war - before that the West was happy to send billions to Russia. The political one seems quite stable, Putin had a few decades to cement it and make sure nobody takes it to the streets, and if someone is brave enough to do it, they will be quickly pacified. He is swi…

I thought Iran situation is more about sharia than youtube cat videos.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#673

Post by imtringued »

direwolf20 wrote: post #574
akudha wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with using Linux?

Linus Torvalds is very pro–corporate, pro–tivoization, he thinks GPL3 was a terrible mistake.

He is against the "GPLv3 or later clause" because the FSF could change the license terms if it gets hijacked.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#674

Post by hilios »

dundarious wrote: post #648
hilios wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this isn't what OP was referring to, why bring it up? I don't see how this is relevant, to the security of data from European companies, stored in European clouds.

It is a related complaint. Moving services to a jurisdiction where free speech is grossly violated (even the lower level of free speech that was prevalent in the EU compared to US).

In the past, protection of free speech in the EU might have been less absolute, than in the US. Given the actions of the current US administrations and the (in)action of the supreme court, free speech in the US currently doesn't even serve its most essential purpose of being able to criticize the government, without fear of repercussions (e.g. Kimmel, Colbert).

As such moving services to the EU jurisdiction is most likely also better, if you're concerned about free speech, at least for the moment.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#675

Post by imtringued »

bell-cot wrote: post #179
yoavm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main reason we don't have an alternative to Visa/Mastercard duopoly is protectionism of EU countries. There are local alternatives that do pretty well (BLIK in Poland, Revolut Pay in countries where it's popular) but entering more markets is like pulling teeth because EU throws regulatory obstacles at every step. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense? How did Visa & Mastercard manage to go through the "prote…

> How did Visa & Mastercard manage... I'd bet a combination of: - Got through before the red tape ramparts were nearly as thick as today - Ungentle arm-twisting by the US Gov't... at Visa & Mastercard's behest - Amply greased palms... which can't be traced to Visa or Mastercard. At least not in any jurisdiction which would do anything about it.

You forgot the part where there is a bootstrap problem for any fintech.

You need the appropriate license to make money, but you can only get that license if you already have enough money.

On top of that is a requirement that basically demands that you have employees in charge that have worked and gained job experience at the established businesses.

This is good for stability, but it also means that innovation gets nibbed in the bud.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#676

Post by hilbert42 »

RobotToaster wrote: post #389
nixpulvis wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as America would like to reduce its dependence on external production, so to do other countries want to reduce their own. We used to live in a world converging toward maximal international trade, when in fact it was exploiting underdeveloped nations. As we progress globally, and as the development gap shrinks, we have noticed power dynamics which weren't well guarded against in the old way. So now what? How do w…

> If I allow myself to be optimistic, I'd be hoping for more international lawyers and trade agreements. One of the issues with the current system is that the WTO appellate body, which is effectively the court of world trade, requires USA approval for any appointments, which both Trump and Biden have refused to give. This effectively makes the WTO completely impotent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appellate_Body

Trade agreements, the WTO, its rules and appellant system, only work if nations are at peace and that peace is sustainable. We've just lived through a remarkably stable period of 80 years (since WWII) without which WHO, free trade and trade agreements could not have existed as we've known them. That era is seemingly now over, and the WTO is falling into irrelevancy.

Unfortunately, in the decades since the 1970s laissez faire economics/capitalism with its immediate need for quick profits, short-termism, a penchant for deregulation and ignoring traditional business ethics has meant that governments have ignored their long-term strategic interests. Despite the dangers of these policies being blatantly obvious dangers from the outset many Western governments encouraged such practices. Now it's payback time, and it'll be expensive—likely more than if the old order had been retained.

Anyone with a sense of history could see the headlong rush to deregulatate markets, indiscriminate reductions in tariffs and free (and indiscriminate) trade, would ultimately result in leaving many countries strategically vulnerable and open to exploitation by others.

We're now witnessing the true cost of these policies and what it means to have lost critical industrial infrastructure, loss of production know-how along with the loss of skilled workers, and an ongoing deskilling of the workforce all of which took decades if not centuries to build up.

With more nuanced policies much of the pain could have been avoided.

Rebuilding a strategic manufacturing infrastructure to insure resilience and independence in an increasingly uncertain and divided world will be costly and difficult.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#677

Post by lucasRW »

surgical_fire wrote: post #242
lucasRW wrote: post #138

Why EU-native rather than nation-native ? If you are French, your sensitive stuff must be French-native, just like Switzerland does, not "EU-native whatever that means". There is no EU, each country has very strong different interests, on some topics, some will decide to stay close to the US, on some other topics, some will seek proximity with the BRICS, etc, etc. Constantly being in an in-between is what has destroy…

> There is no EU > what has destroyed Europe. Hyperbole much? I think you completely misunderstand what the EU is, the position of its member states, etc. It's hard to take any point you tried to make seriously given that.

Many EU countries have bought US fighter jets (Denmark for instance). Many EU countries still make it clear that they want US technology (Poland for instance). Germany is sending extremely mixed signals.

So, when it's "EU sovereignity", which is it, the Polish flavored one, or the French-flavored one ?

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#678

Post by PlatoIsADisease »

tliltocatl wrote: post #494
PlatoIsADisease wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define 'survive'. Given Europe's productivity gap with the US, they appear they are becoming even further a vassal. They will survive, but they further lose their leverage with each year. We see this in international politics as the US pivots away from Europe and towards Asia. (Although Russia's decline has also made it less necessary too) If you want Europe to rejoin 'great powers', as 'survival', yes they need AI.

Productivity in producing slop? Because that's the only thing LLMs are good for so far. And by the time this change the GPUs installed today will become obsolete.

oof you are never gonna make it

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#679

Post by littlestymaar »

tokai wrote: post #525
littlestymaar wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like containing Russia without having to rely on the whims of another country's politics That's true, but at the same time it was probably already the case before invasion of Ukraine, and it is definitely the case now. The main issue is political fragmentation: would Paris and Berlin risk lives of French and German people (soldiers and civilians due to retaliation) to save Vilnius? But if the answer is true (as obl…

>would Paris and Berlin risk lives of French and German people (soldiers and civilians due to retaliation) to save Vilnius? Yes very much.

I wouldn't be so categorical about France. Pro-russian/ “anti-war” political parties earned the majority of votes (but not seats) in the last elections, and the personality of Macron is so divisive (he has had record low approval for most of his tenure) it really impairs support for war.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#680

Post by littlestymaar »

hilbert42 wrote: post #655
tokai wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>would Paris and Berlin risk lives of French and German people (soldiers and civilians due to retaliation) to save Vilnius? Yes very much.

Right. Aggression can only be tolerated up to a point before it triggers a response. Remember, on 1 September 1939 the Nazis invaded Poland and two days later both the UK and France declared war on Germany.

“and two days later both the UK and France decided not to intervene and just set up defensive position in Belgium and eastern France” is what actually happened. With the terrible results we known for France (the defensive position being hammered on its weakest point, leading to the complete collapse of the French army in less than a month.
Post reply on HN