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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#671

Post by Zak »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #473
saimiam wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a user almost exclusively uses the Patreon ios app to consume the artist’s content and likes to live inside the ios ecosystem for frictionless payments using the card on file/privacy/UX/whatever, then I feel apple should get to set the terms of engagement. If you were a chain store in a high end mall where customers cars were all parked for free by valets, mall staff knew their names, and generally made them feel…

> If a user almost exclusively uses the Patreon ios app to consume the artist’s content and likes to live inside the ios ecosystem for frictionless payments using the card on file/privacy/UX/whatever, then I feel apple should get to set the terms of engagement. When I paid over $1000 to buy an iPhone I thought I was buying a technological product that I could use to improve my life. I didn’t realize I was buying a ti…

> I didn’t realize I was buying a ticket to Disneyland where the seller of the product decided how I interacted with everything the device enabled.

If you're the sort of person who posts on HN and you bought an iPhone after they hit the $1000 price point, you probably did know that.

It surprises me a little that so many people who do know still make that choice.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#672

Post by xnyan »

pphysch wrote: post #640
xnyan wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they're very overused I disagree, native apps on iOS have important abilities that no web application can match. The inability to control cache long-term is alone a dealbreaker if trying to create an experience with minimal friction.

Those same elevated controls are used to steal PII and sell to data brokers. Again, it's the companies that are trying to force apps on their users. If it were genuinely a much better UX, they wouldn't have to do that.

I don’t think you are correct, but I could be wrong. For example, can you replicate the functionality of TikTok - autoplay unmuted videos as the user scroll down to new videos? It’s the experience that the user expects.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#673

Post by yeezyszn »

I’m surprised at the comments here. Why should the government set the “right” margin?

If you cap the margin, you’re entrenching the monopoly forever. Allow them to charge what they want, and set tax rates on corporations commensurate with the size of their profits. Make it easier for competitors to start.

The path to a sustainable marketplace does not come from top down enforcement of margins. It comes from competition

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#674

Post by debugnik »

Izkata wrote: post #668
debugnik wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discussion here started on whether users check apps more often than websites and whether Patreon is the kind of platform that one might want to check often for new content. I'm not sure how has the goalpost here moved to app-exclusivity, I understood exclusive here to mean "exclusive to Patreon" as opposed to supporting a creator that posts everything for free somewhere else, which is the use case that made that one…

They specifically said "app" which is why I interpreted it as exclusive to the app. The other way around is a little confusing as a question because that's the primary purpose of Patreon and is mentioned on the homepage marketing (multiple payment tiers with exclusive content).

I'm willing to consider that they moved the goalpost and not you, but I still don't get how has this thread diverged.

I too got confused by oneeyedpigeon's question but I assumed from their claim about it being "setup and forget" that they simply don't know much about it.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#675

Post by cybrox »

Izkata wrote: post #668
debugnik wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discussion here started on whether users check apps more often than websites and whether Patreon is the kind of platform that one might want to check often for new content. I'm not sure how has the goalpost here moved to app-exclusivity, I understood exclusive here to mean "exclusive to Patreon" as opposed to supporting a creator that posts everything for free somewhere else, which is the use case that made that one…

They specifically said "app" which is why I interpreted it as exclusive to the app. The other way around is a little confusing as a question because that's the primary purpose of Patreon and is mentioned on the homepage marketing (multiple payment tiers with exclusive content).

I should have probably said: "[...] exclusive content which is curated on [the creators] Patreon and [accessible to the user via the web browser or] their app."

Hope this clears things up. My main point was that there is in fact an incentive for users to check the app beyond setting up payment and forgetting about it. Even if it is not the only way such content is available, it certainly is a convenient one.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#676

Post by mircerlancerous »

xnyan wrote: post #633
Spoom wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everybody will slowly move to "web only" as 30% would kill their ability to compete with anybody else. Frankly, yes, please. I mean, I'm biased as my whole career is in web app development, but there are so many things these days that do not need a whole native app . They're just communicating with a server backend somewhere, using none of the unique native functionality of the phone (much of which is available in…

> I think they're very overused I disagree, native apps on iOS have important abilities that no web application can match. The inability to control cache long-term is alone a dealbreaker if trying to create an experience with minimal friction.

Service workers allow you to control cache in web apps; you may be a bit out of date.

There are hardware APIs for some stuff that only works in native (cors, raw tcp), but 99% of apps don't need those.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#677

Post by ericmay »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #587
stouset wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> downloading and using packages & executables from the internet Oh boy, now my mom can get the full experience of having malware on her phone too!

With freedom also comes responsibility, and some innocent people will inevitably shoot themselves in the foot. This is not a strong enough argument for putting everybody else in a cage and letting a duopoly take over virtually all of the distribution of consumer software.

It might be a strong argument depending on the negative effects - I don't think it's very clear cut. Also no, neither Apple nor Google have a duopoly on the distribution of all consumer software. Microsoft exists, for example.

The other problem consideration here is negotiating power.

Today consumers don't have negotiating power over individual developers, but both Apple and Google do. If you complain to Meta about their unwanted tracking, you don't really have many options besides deleting the app (which you should do anyway). But if enough people complain to Apple or Google, they are more inclined to do something and have the power.

While it may be a marriage of convenience, it's undeniable that both companies through their app distribution models have also provided benefits to consumers that developers otherwise would have abused - privacy, screen recording, malicious advertising, &c.

If you want to argue from the standpoint of pro-consumer action, you have to remember that "developers" are usually pretty awful too and will get away with anything they can, even if it harms their customers. A good balance, instead of ideological purity about one "side" or the other is the smarter move. I tend to come down on the side of the mainstream app stores precisely because those asking for more "freedom" to do as they wish are a tiny minority and are usually more technical. I.e. they can jump through the hoops to install 3rd party app stores and jailbreak their phones today, and since you already can do what you want, maybe it's best to just leave the masses alone since they're very obviously happy with the duopoly.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#678

Post by mircerlancerous »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #603
Spoom wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everybody will slowly move to "web only" as 30% would kill their ability to compete with anybody else. Frankly, yes, please. I mean, I'm biased as my whole career is in web app development, but there are so many things these days that do not need a whole native app . They're just communicating with a server backend somewhere, using none of the unique native functionality of the phone (much of which is available in…

Apple makes sure it's not practical. You still can't have a "share to" target that is a web app on iOS. And the data your can store in local storage on safari is a joke. Of course, forget about background tasks and integrated notifications. In fact, even on Android you miss features with web apps, like widgets for quick actions, mapping actions to buttons and so on. And no matter how good you cache things, the mobile…

Service workers solve the cache issue; web apps can run permanently offline after initial load. You may be a bit out of date on the state of the web.
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