Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

newsroom.porsche.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

671–680 of 740 posts

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#671

Post by WorldMaker »

bwv848 wrote: post #483
joe_mamba wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy. Not true. China let Tesla set up shop in the backyard of their domestic EV industry, WITHOUT the mandatory by law 51% Chinese ownership, precisely so Tesla would light a fire under the asses of domestic players, forcing them to compete better with what was at the time, the pinnacle EV brand. China is no longer beati…

> so Tesla would light a fire under the asses of domestic players, forcing them to compete better with what was at the time, the pinnacle EV brand. More like having Tesla to bootstrap the upstream suppliers so local brands can leverage them.

Which was a good strategy. It's not that far from older "Detroit strategies" that led to Chrysler, Dodge, Ford, and GM all competing for "world leader" from "The Motor City" in a past century.

If anything the shame is not that the Chinese pulled this off successfully, but that Detroit is still barely trying to compete in streamlining their bloated supply chains in light of EV competition; none of the US automakers are sharing upstream suppliers on batteries and all are scrambling in different directions on even some of the basics.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#672

Post by NetMageSCW »

skylurk wrote: post #176
brianpan wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're comparing notes, I traded in my Model 3 for a BMW i4 and I couldn't be happier. It's a nicer car and more fun to drive! JD Power and Consumer Reports both rate BMW above average. BTW, my impression of BMW maintenance from prior decades is expensive and not great reliability. I care about it less now with EVs because there is so much less regular maintenance. No oil changes, no brake pad changes, etc.

Yep. EVs are a once in a lifetime chance for EU and Chinese manufacturers to catch up again or even leapfrog Toyota. Until recently Toyota was 20 years ahead wrt reliability and upkeep. Soon, battery weight and performance will be the main differentiator of vehicles.

That is no more true than it was for ICE vehicles.

Steering, braking, balance, suspension, Infotainment, UI and controls, and internal materials will all still vary widely for brands and manufacturers.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#673

Post by NetMageSCW »

tehjoker wrote: post #90
jacquesm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the Israeli attack using pagers I think this is no longer paranoid at all. The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, especially if it is grid connected, contains heater elements or batteries. Inverters, solar panels, vehicles, 3D printers, the list is endless and all of these are either potential fire starters or ways to destabilize the grid. Used maliciously the potential for misery is pretty l…

China is much less likely to attack civilians. Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds. America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved.

They are currently killing some of their own population in internal genocides. I don’t think they will treat others better.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#674

Post by pstuart »

MiiMe19 wrote: post #571
costcopizza wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here. There are multiple other factors for the relatively low adoption of EVs compared to China.

Explain to me why I should want an electric car?

Low maintenance costs, cheaper operational cost (depending on electric rates).

Some of them are quite peppy too. My Leaf isn't but it meets the criteria I just gave.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#675

Post by pstuart »

jansper39 wrote: post #422
psychoslave wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly doubt any current car will stand longevity of those cars. The maintenance entry cost of anything with integrated electronic is just several order of magnitude in complexity.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

It's a pity that diesel-gate happened, and that they weren't able to solve the emissions problem.

I came across a post about a diesel tractor with no electrical parts and imagined the value of a post-apocalyptical car that could withstand EMPs and run on virtually any fuel type. Limited market obviously, make it configurable like a diesel Slate truck and baby you've got a stew going!

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#676

Post by NetMageSCW »

monero-xmr wrote: post #220
etempleton wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsche / Audi are selling a lot more cars then they were 10-15 years ago. I think they will be okay. Chinese brands will cut into all establish automaker sales, but the German cars have strong brands that symbolize luxury. Look at Land Rover. There are cars are completely unreliable and they are selling more than ever at increasingly ludicrous prices. I agree with you, but luxury car manufactures largely sell leases…

I am very much interested in electric cars that look like normal cars. I understand the battery changes things. But why they have to shit up the design of 75% of electric cars is nonsensical to me

Designers can’t help themselves when given the freedom to take things in a new direction, they forget there might be practical reasons for the old designs. (See Liquid Glass.)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#677

Post by NetMageSCW »

toephu2 wrote: post #228
joeel84 wrote: post #77

I just buy japanese cars/vehicles these days. With that being said a lot of them are manufactured stateside - especially larger vehicles. I had a Mitsu I was very happy with. I've also purchased Hyundai made in Korea and it is wonderful but not much better that what was built in Iowa.

Buying an ICE vehicle in 2026 is like...buying a video cassette player when DVD players were already coming out?

Buying a BEV in 2026 is like buying a Beta VCR when VHS is just coming out?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#678

Post by coryrc »

fy20 wrote: post #218
coryrc wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially as Toyota seems structurally unable to create a good EV. They produced one completely bare-bones model 30 years ago and never expanded past that. At least they're keeping some knowledge of the parts by having PHEVs, but I don't think they're on the leading edge of anything. Maybe they don't need to be and can buy everything from other suppliers, but they're going to be doing a whole lot less than they curr…

Toyota hybrids are full hybrids however, not mild hybrids like other manufactures, so all you really need is a bigger battery and charger. My 10 year old RAV4 Hybrid (not plug-in) can deliver 160kW just from the electric motors, without the engine. That's 3x a Dacia Spring. They have the technology for motors and control electronics, and they know it works long term without issues. Most of the European EVs are basica…

That's why I said they're not necessarily out of the running, like Mazda or Subaru. But that technology isn't quite right; it's two motors, connected to a planetary gearset and in a conventional location to a gasoline engine. They're still thinking "engine here, transmission there, differential in this part" and not working on "how can we reduce cost if we don't have one prime mover that gets really hot". Their motors aren't the most efficient technology and so they aren't learning as much as their competitors are who are shipping lighter, more-powerful motors.

And they could still be right. The future could be 100-mi-EV PHEVs with ever-smaller engines and they'd be the best at it. But I think BYD will prove that wrong outside the USA.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#679

Post by ekr »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #622
ekr wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. Living in the Netherlands, I drive a 2008 Daihatsu Cuore, bought for 850E over a year ago, I pay 17E /month in mrb (road tax) and 38E/month insurance. It's basically close to the costs of a scooter. And I average under 4L/100km fuel usage, for my 200km/week commute. I did some calculation and no car comes close to these running costs. Definitely no electric cars, even if I were to get them for free, becaus…

>. Living in the Netherlands, I drive a 2008 Daihatsu Cuore, bought for 850E over a year ago, I pay 17E /month in mrb (road tax) and 38E/month insurance. Imagine how many people are reading this and thinking to themselves "government has to do something to drive up those numbers so it's no longer financially sensible for you to drive that car"

Well, fuel here is close to if not the most expensive in EU. That also contains a lot of tax. But I just don't drive that much.

And the insurance is cheap because of years of no incidents, and the fact that I'm over 30. But indeed, I wouldn't disagree if the government made electric cars cheaper from a tax perspective. They just reduced the tax discount to 25%, and it will be gone completely in a few years.

If they raise taxes significantly for me, I'll just sell the car and find a closer job. 20km one way to Amsterdam with an ebike, that's 2 hours per day. I don't have that much time to give away at this point in life.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#680

Post by NetMageSCW »

dmix wrote: post #115
maxdo wrote: post #106

German cars have lost their technological edge. They can't even build their own infotainment systems anymore. They're paying billions to China to do it for them. I can't overstate how catastrophically stupid this is. Paying what they consider smaller competitors real cash to build core software, instead of developing that capability in-house or acquiring a few startups with decent engineering talent. This isn't just…

> instead of developing that capability in-house or acquiring a few startups with decent engineering talent. It's usually the former and their infotainment stuff is usually nothing to get excited about. When they buy startups they get bogged down and burn off the talent quickly. Maybe the solution is not having the same small set of car companies trying to pull off the survival balancing act as we did a century ago,…

I didn’t think Harmon Kardon was Chinese?
Post reply on HN