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A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

larslofgren.com

671–680 of 996 posts

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#671
Reddit has problems with moderation being too easy and too difficult.

It is very easy to ban someone. Making the ban permanent and combining this with the moderator blocking the person (so they can't send messages), there's no appeal process.

Another part is that for any sub of reasonable volume, trying to actively moderate and shape beyond banning the most egregious actors is difficult. Deleting and locking posts for a finer level of moderation is time consuming. The judgement calls of "when is this going off the rails?" become more snap over time.

With the time consuming nature of actually moderating a sub and the ease of just banning someone - moderation becomes the policy of whoever has the most time. The stereotypical variations of this are the paid social media manager who's job it is to scrub anything positive of a competitor or negative about their brand, or a person who is moderating because of a deep interest in the subject but with strong opinions too.

With multiple active moderators, the most extreme views of each in turn become the overall "moderation philosophy" (and if those views are opposed the oldest one wins).

Combined with the echo chamber nature of the message board, the more and more extreme stances become the dominant stances.

To try to present a consistent approach to moderation (Reddit has gotten burned by inconsistent responses many times in the past) it appears that Reddit.inc is trying to be completely hands off. That in turn means that it takes extreme situations for corporate to get involved - often long after it's been a problem that they've been alerted to. Having let the problem fester for so long, when something is done, it tends to be very heavy handed, lopsided, and generates a significant amount of discontent that spreads elsewhere.

So, you've got a site that hosts thousands of message boards, that inevitably grow more and more partisan to one extreme or the other, are mostly facades for a corporation, or propaganda for a political organization.

It is impressive that it has remained "stable" for as long as it has.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit has a moderation problem, and it's a big one. They've now been asked to appear in front of Congress to address concerns about politically motivated violence being incited through their platform: https://oversight.house.gov/release/chairman-comer-invites-c... Personally I believe I've seen more people in the past few years wish a politically motivated death on somebody else via Reddit, than I have anywhere else…

Moderation on Reddit has been questionable for a long time and its killing the site. To give some examples: - /r/energy used to ban everyone in favour of nuclear energy - If you post on /r/conservative you can expect to receive a bunch of bans from unrelated (popular) subs. Doesn't matter what you posted, being associated with that subs "taints" your account enough for some moderators. - /r/UnitedKingdom banned me fo…

Try suggesting on /r/MichaelJackson that he was maybe a little weird about kids, instant ban

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#673
post #84

I don't know about this particular case, but, generally... bad actor subreddit moderators have been an occasional thing for well over a decade. And it's also been widely known for that long that Reddit is an influential venue in which to take over a corner -- for marketing or propaganda. What's an equal concern to me is how insufficiently resilient Reddit collectively appears to be, in face of this. A bad actor mod o…

There are lots of very large subreddits that are prolific at shadowbanning people -- you might think you're participating in the conversation for quite a while and people just aren't upvoting you or responding to you for whatever reason, and your posts aren't visible at all. /r/worldnews is very free with them, for example.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#674
That's some deep dark shit, if it's true...

And that's the problem with this interweb lark, made worse by aggregators who's algorithms can be gamed, and now we have stochastic LLMs adding to the remix, how do we know what is true?

The narrative related here is frighteningly believable, and, no doubt, so were all the reddit posts.

The difference between the narrative described by this narrative, and the narrative related in the narrative, is that one is death by a thousand cuts, the other either a well deserved take-down or an undeserved attempt at one.

I can't tell the difference, but reddit should be able to.

So this is really about whether reddit sees it's reputation as an asset to be monetized in the short-term, or invested in for the long-term. This is the classic tension between the brand manager and the brand guardian, maximize the cashflow or maximize the balance sheet value, and tells you almost everything important about a company's core culture.

How reddit handles this, it could be argued, will define reddit going forwards.

I watch with baited breath...

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#675
post #334

That's common. A marketing company took over r/mattress in order to get rid of any unfavorable reviews and pump up any bed in box mattress company as long as these companies pay to that market company. For more, https://www.reddit.com/r/MattressMod/comments/1c28g7b/recent...

I'm not interested in doing this at all, but how does a person take over a subreddit? That sounds like a very difficult thing to do.

Apart from getting the existing mod team to hand over to you, you can also petition to the reddit admins. For example, there is a process to replace inactive mods and this could be used to take control of a subreddit with existing users.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#676
Sadly, Reddit has become a disease upon "normal" society.

Also, sadly, is that it is extremely addictive; it is my version of YouTube shorts or TikTok (which I do not use). It is so easy to say "I'm just going to browse for a few minutes", and have it turn into MUCH longer than a few minutes. Those darn cute cat videos!!!

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t help but notice that Twitter and TikTok didn’t get called for that session. In November 2023, Twitter went from a zero tolerance policy for violent speech to “we may remove or reduce the visibility of violent speech.” Seems really relevant for the topic of the hearings! And yet. I’m thus unwilling to take Rep. Comey’s decision to call Reddit to testify as evidence of anything. Feels more like political theate…

While Twitter has many problems it does seem to do a reasonable job of not promoting hate and violence towards a large audience. There's many messages critical of immigrants on my timeline but none calling for violence against them (or any other group that Twitter users dislike). Meanwhile posts about violence against Trump, Musk or celebrating the dead of Kirk did get massive upvotes and visibility on some of the bi…

Last time I logged into Twitter to delete my account, many months post Musk, I was presented immediately with disturbing videos of both people and animals beating beat up in the "For you" tab.

And let's not ignore the owner of the site posting inflammatory/hateful/violent rhetoric.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#678

Were any of you around for the r/Seattle move to r/seattlewa That dude was crazy

What’s the background on that? Mod abuse?

Yeah. The mod of Seattle would ban anyone and everyone for the littlest things. Iirc, he was early on Reddit and had created the sub, and as the community grew his abuse got worse until there was a mass migration.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most online communities work that way. It’s highly unusual to have some sort of judicial process.

Most older forums had an element of self-selection... people don't hang out where they're not wanted. But with Reddit, it's the only forum left (for any number of broad and narrow topics) so you're either there or nowhere. This forces to some extent people who would gravitate away from each other, and personalities go overboard. There's more need of a judicial process there, than there would be elsewhere. And that wa…

Reddit always was a flawed place

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#680
post #589

The discussion at https://larslofgren.com/codesmith-reddit-reputation-attack/ is not going well for Mr. Novati. Edit: oops, that was the wrong link! I meant to link to the reddit post discussing that article: https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1o1guxj/tho... I think one of the most telling facts is that pro-Novati poster u/Ok-Donuts has posted numerous comments that are clearly a violation of all norms…

u/Ok-donuts is clearly his alt. Absolutely pathetic
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