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Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#671

Post by KoolKat23 »

gargan wrote: post #387
jonex wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the difference between proportional voting vs winner takes it all. In the latter case you can't really hold politicians accountable, as you will have to choose between effectively throwing your vote away or voting for the one opposition candidate, that often will be just as bad. While the UK have some level of representativeness, each circuit has a winner takes it all structure, making change quite hard to achie…

It's the opposite of what you say. Proportional representation isn't accountable because you don't know what coalition you're voting for - coalitions are done in backrooms after the election. Winner takes all is more accountable because the coalitions are done before the election (aka political parties). Parties are made up of different factions and they're agreed before the election.

That's not really true. It just means there is a gradient of success rather than outright success or loss. Particular portions of what you voted for may be successful. First past the post means you take it all or leave it all, policywise, small things are likely to fall through the cracks.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#672

Post by KoolKat23 »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #462
ghusto wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With proportionate representation you get what _should_ happen, in my opinion, which is sometimes nothing. If the coalition can't decide on something, then it doesn't happen, which is the correct outcome because not enough people agree about it. It represents the people (who also can not agree on it). The alternative is a decision that most people don't agree with.

That sounds like kind of a mirror of some of peoples biggest complaints regarding bureaucracy and committees. Deadlock can not only be worse than an imperfect solution, it can be weaponized by a minority to exert outsized power and extract otherwise unthinkable concessions. We see this sometimes in the US House, where more fringe or radical groups within parties can block the literally functioning of the actual count…

That's ironically just something the British government used to pride themselves on, Pragmatism.

If it's important enough or dysfunctional enough a quick decision will be taken. There's clearly deadlock in first past post too, look at the US, if neither party advocates for it at all, it gets nowhere.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#673

Post by dbetteridge »

Nursie wrote: post #143
angulardragon03 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterpoint to this is obviously that the requirement to present ID to vote is tantamount to voter suppression - iirc there is no “free” form of ID in the UK. As an ex-Brit I am also used to carrying an ID and a drivers license, and I’ve always found it quite weird that you can’t get an ID card of any kind that isn’t a full-fledged passport or a drivers license.

I mean I guess this new thing is going to be free? I also don't live in the UK any more, still a brit and not yet Australian, but I have had to adjust to it being necessary to carry your license here when driving. It means I can't really leave home without my wallet, which is odd. We're getting electronic licenses before long though, hopefully.

Australia is state by state based too, some states have more reasonable rules of "present it on request"

Others like nsw are carry always

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#674

Post by cameronh90 »

elcritch wrote: post #14
lvturner wrote: post #5

Having just paid a small fortune to renew my passport. I'm not super excited about this, especially as I live outside the UK. I also don't trust them not to make a complete hash of all this, removing all potential utility while simultaneously increasing the chances of my ID being stolen. sigh

As an American it seems to me that the UK government insists on finding a way to upset all sides on any given issue like illegal immigration. If anything it's the singular and unique skill of Whitehall.

It's more that the average Brit finds a way to be upset about everything any UK government does. Even just the test of the cell emergency alert system was met with fierce public criticism: what if people crash their car out of surprise?!

But being critical of your leaders isn't the worst thing in the world. It's fairly bipartisan too; most of the people who voted for our current PM just a year ago now disapprove of him. A high level of public scrutiny on one's leaders' is probably quite effective at preventing totalitarianism. Whatever can be (often justifiably) said about our ineffective leadership, what we do have is a good track record for stability.

However, sometimes it's really just cynicism for cynicism's sake.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#675

Post by aikinai »

robotresearcher wrote: post #492
ghusto wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was reading through your post, finding it difficult to find fault with anything you were saying, but something wasn't sitting right. And then ... > I'm certain it's worked well in other countries It has! In the Netherlands for example, it's just an incredibly convenient system, and if there's anything dodgy going on I'm not aware of it. So what makes the UK so different to the Netherlands? Genuine question, because I…

Mandatory ID cards are a cultural no-no in the UK. They were required during WW2, then discontinued in peacetime. People burned them in the street. You are not required to show ID to a police officer. Even when driving you don’t need to show a license on the spot, though if stopped for cause you have to present it at a police station within three days. At least those were the rules when I was a young driver there. Th…

Multiple citizenships are absolutely allowed in the US.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#676

Post by hnlmorg »

9x39 wrote: post #637
hnlmorg wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be arguing simultaneously that the Brits are worse than average when it comes to adapting to local norms as tourists, while also suggesting that the people moving to Britain permanently shouldn't have to? No. I’m arguing that people who say “people change their personalities to suit mine” are hypocrites. > But a small country can't preserve their identity when they are overloaded by so many immigrants c…

>I do think it’s courteous for people to make an effort to integrate. But it should also be their decision, not ours. If I choose not to integrate, and to instead practice particularly illiberal approaches to women, for example, is that still my decision? If my culture uses rape and acid to control women, may I continue? I'm picking on a particularly onerous difference between Western and MENA peoples that's been a f…

> If I choose not to integrate, and to instead practice particularly illiberal approaches to women, for example, is that still my decision? If my culture uses rape and acid to control women, may I continue?

You’re now conflating culture with crime.

And are you honestly suggesting that other cultures have literally nothing to offer asides violent sexual offences?!

Ridiculous.

> If immigration was purely unfounded scapegoating, and we all could simply talk about our heritage and share new foods in these borderless economic zones that used to be countries, why would there be articles like these popping up

The first article is debunking headline claims about immigration. Ostensibly supporting my claims.

The second article is just a commentary of the government’s plans to deport.

Neither of them defend your position.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#677

Post by nine_k »

philipallstar wrote: post #505
qazwsxedchac wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ID cards as realized in many other countries are comparatively benign, because they are a physical credential in the possession of the person concerned. The government cannot stop this credential from being used except by physically confiscating it or by waiting (years) for it to expire. Distributed storage in action. The UK's proposal makes the "digital ID" a pointer to an entry in a centralized database. This d…

I'm against the ID, but the more good faith reason for a database entry is it should eliminate fake IDs.

Good public key cryptography should make it pretty hard. Yes, rotate the IDs every 10 years, with a new photo and using a new private key.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#679

Post by hnlmorg »

randerson wrote: post #642
hnlmorg wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be arguing simultaneously that the Brits are worse than average when it comes to adapting to local norms as tourists, while also suggesting that the people moving to Britain permanently shouldn't have to? No. I’m arguing that people who say “people change their personalities to suit mine” are hypocrites. > But a small country can't preserve their identity when they are overloaded by so many immigrants c…

> No. I’m arguing that people who say “people change their personalities to suit mine” are hypocrites. Assimilating doesn't mean changing one's personality. I'm still the same person I was before I came to the USA, but I respect that some things are customary and others are considered offensive. I know I'm expected to tip for services that in other countries would be considered insulting. Yet if enough immigrants ref…

> Unchecked immigration is the top reason that western populations are shifting rightward

There never has been unchecked immigration despite what various hard-right publications might say.

> to change their ways to accommodate your beliefs

Literally no one is advocating that the UK should change its culture to suit any beliefs of immigrants.

Being inclusive doesn’t mean we have to change our own culture. Unless, that is, you consider xenophobia a “cultural” problem. And if you do, then I don’t think changing people’s attitudes there is an unfair ask.

The real reason society is shifting rightwards isn’t directly due to immigration. That’s actually a symptom of the shift, not the cause.

The real reason is poverty and greed. The wealth gap is grown, the rich have gotten more greedy and the working class have gotten poorer. So people want change. The right promises change by scapegoating people who are different. And then the the poor vote for that change, without realising that they’re just voting for the institution that screwed them over to begin with. As evidenced by the fact that the wealthy largely also vote for the right.

You see this cycle over and over again in history throughout the world. Unfortunately it’s usually followed by war.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#680

Post by pezezin »

hereme888 wrote: post #546
jama211 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that’s already the case without a digital id. It’s not like those accounts aren’t already linked together.

Breach = data for all citizens. Card = one person, limited use. But most importantly: a Hitler rises to power = opposition is screwed.

Ah, good old Godwin's law...

If a Hitler rises to power you will be screwed with or without an ID card, so please don't use such a silly argument.

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