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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

middleeasteye.net

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#671

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

tayo42 wrote: post #631
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as Israel controls the lives of millions of Palestinians who have no rights and who are treated like trash, there will be conflict. In order to be effective, US pressure would have to be aimed at forcing Israel to do one of two things: 1. Withdraw its military from the Palestinian territories (East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza), dismantle all of its illegal settlements there, and recognize a fully sovere…

Your ignoring or forgetting that Palestinians don't want either of those solutions, and that's a core part of the conflict.

The Palestinians pursued a 2-state solution (option 1 above) for over two decades. It failed largely because of dead-set opposition from the Israeli right (thanks Netanyahu) and because even the Israeli center-left was unwilling to fully withdraw to Israel's internationally recognized borders and recognize a fully sovereign Palestinian state. There were always demands to keep large chunks of territory (most critically in East Jerusalem) and maintain effective control over any future Palestinian semi-state.

Both options laid out above (the 2-state and 1-state solution) are vastly better for the Palestinians than living under permanent Israeli military occupation with no rights, and subjected to continuous violence from the Israelis. It would not be the Palestinians who would block these types of solutions, were they actually on offer.

The Israelis have a near monopoly on force in this conflict. They are the overwhelmingly dominant party, the only one with tanks, aircraft, destroyers and nuclear weapons. They have the power to dictate solutions, and that's what they've been doing for decades, using brute force. Pretending these are two equal sides that just can't agree is a fantasy.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#672

Post by matusp »

energy123 wrote: post #562
MangoToupe wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely if a surrender takes place, it will be merely symbolic. I cannot imagine anyone can convince a population so terrorized to forgive or forget.

Japanese civilians experienced far worse in WW2, and they forgot pretty quickly. The war against the Tamil Tigers would be another case study. Once the radicalism is dealt with by force, the ratcheting of violence is reduced, and people move on.

Japanese had it bad for 2-3 years. After that they were allowed to live in their country with their own leadership. Palestinians have it bad for 80 years, they are not allowed to return to their homeland, and we expect them to live in closely monitored concentration camps.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#673

Post by steeve »

dluan wrote: post #525

Seeing PG slowly turn on this issue, from nothing into recognition and now into advocacy has been wild. Presumably because he has kids, and like many parents you understand with your eyes first, and then your heart. PG wields some amount of power in SV, but YC and others are still inextricably tied to what's happening. Thiel was just in Israel with elad gil, rabois, alex karp, joe lonsdale. It's just too much to list…

Hard to put into words how those people act like the devil incarnate and a lot of the scene pretends that this doesn't matter.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#674

Post by a_paddy »

ukblewis wrote: post #609
bix6 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a specific report arguing that Israel is not committing genocide? I don’t see it on the home page.

Proving the absence of something is kinda impossible… depends on if you believe in guilty until proven innocent or if you’re totally okay with going gung-ho into trusting the UN, a body led by the majority of non-democratic governments and used to try to destroy democracies

> guilty until proven innocent

Like how Israel treats Palestinians?

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#675

Post by Fluorescence »

King-Aaron wrote: post #629
prawn wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone else not familiar with "anti-BDS": "Anti-BDS laws are legislation that retaliate against those that engage in Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions. With regard to the Arab–Israeli conflict, many supporters of the State of Israel have often advocated or implemented anti-BDS laws, which effectively seek to retaliate against people and organizations engaged in boycotts of Israel-affiliated entities." From Wikipe…

From a historical, economic, social perspective... Why does Israel hold so much power over the world?

Most of geopolitics is geography and Israel has greatly benefitted as a unique bridgehead in hostile territory for a changing roster of great-powers and states against another foe e.g.

- Early Soviet support to undermine British Imperialism

- Balfour Declaration from Britain vs. Ottomans

- Nuclear tech from France vs. Nasser and anti-colonialism

- Military/Nuclear from Apartheid South Africa vs. shared pariah status

- Hegemonic power from the US vs. every unaligned country including Cold War, OPEC, Arab Nationalism, Islamism

The more recent metastasising of support into a political-religous-racial belief-system is even more troubling than the apocalyptic machinations of great powers because pure ideology departs from reason itself and is untethered to any care for the consequences.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#676

Post by the_origami_fox »

toomim wrote: post #579

[flagged]

There are many issues raised with the report, including it omits the invasion by the government of Gaza, Hamas, on 7 October 2023 entirely, and it omits that the Israeli army is fighting the army of Gaza, the Qasam brigades, who had 40,000 salaried fighters (pre-war), have fired thousands of missiles, developed hundreds of kilometres of tunnels specifically for urban warfare, and subverted public and private infrastructure for urban warfare. For such a serious allegation, it is important to consider and address all aspects and not simply omit them.

I would like to add, I don't think this topic is appropriate for Hacker News.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#678

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

dlubarov wrote: post #496
sporkxrocket wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US and all other nations sanction Israel. If that doesn't work, military intervention. Israel will fall, it's just a matter of time.

What would you demand Israel do to be released from these hypothetical sanctions? Military intervention meaning invade a nuclear power?

Either withdraw from all the territory that doesn't legally belong to it (East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza, plus the parts of Syria and Lebanon it occupies), or keep the territory and make all the inhabitants equal citizens.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#679

Post by energy123 »

throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #662
energy123 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same liberal psychology behind UNSC Resolution 1701 in 2006 where Hezbollah pinkie promised to disarm. And now look at all the dead bodies that this liberal solution caused 18 years later. Of course the same types propose the same solutions again with no sense of shame as to how much death it causes. The actual durable solution is something like how Sri Lanka defeated the Tamil Tigers, or how Russia defeated…

> 18 year causality stretch without a single critical remark about israels constant desintegration of palestinian civic life. Good job. The feat of not blaming the obvious aggressor is something very few accomplish. Israel has control over water, electricty, gas, road, "law enforcement", etc. and used it for decades to push palestinians out of their homes. The last violent events are a result of long oppression and n…

Well, you seem to be confusing Gaza with South Lebanon, which is what UNSC Resolution 1701, and the 18 years since then, pertains to. There was zero aggression from Israel, they got attacked unprovoked by Hezbollah on October 8th, 2023.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#680

Post by Aeolun »

nakamoto_damacy wrote: post #669
dluan wrote: post #525

Seeing PG slowly turn on this issue, from nothing into recognition and now into advocacy has been wild. Presumably because he has kids, and like many parents you understand with your eyes first, and then your heart. PG wields some amount of power in SV, but YC and others are still inextricably tied to what's happening. Thiel was just in Israel with elad gil, rabois, alex karp, joe lonsdale. It's just too much to list…

I used to shame PG for his elitist views. Now I celebrate his moral courage. One man cannot fix everything. Dear PG (I'm sure you don't read HN, but this is yet another echo), As I said on X, your own platform (YCombinator) is still full of hateful bigots who would censor/downvote even the mildest form of speaking against the genocide. Proof: this comment being downvoted. Downvoting as a mechanism is akin to censorsh…

> It's being abused.

Downvoting on HN doesn’t go lower than -4. If it’s used as a method of censorship, and you care about internet points, then you practically have to post nothing else useful to make it work.

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